No Salvation Outside the Church

Catholic Answers ^ | 12/05 | Fr. Ray Ryland

[Petronski]

So you’re saying the Catholic priest at your church is NOT subject to the discipline from Rome.

Of course he's not. Rome is the capital city of Italy.

The Holy See is in Vatican City, not Rome.

...its obvious you aren’t honest and will not debate without parsing and deflecting.

Again, how deliciously anti-intellectual. You blame your imprecision on me, for demanding precision, and you lay that blame by calling me dishonest. And somehow you are God's noblest of men.

That's just amazing.

[Petronski]

Correct, that of Jesus.

Jesus Christ is the head of the Catholic Church.

[driftdiver]

DING!

[driftdiver]

DING!

[Petronski]

Awwww....you tilted!

[Dr. Eckleburg]

If that’s your reflection, so be it.

[CTrent1564]

driftdive

Fair question and a good one. Yes, there are under the guidance and discipline of Rome, but there is a separate Canon Law that describes the role the Pope plays in the relationship between Rome and the Eastern Catholic Churches. Here is link for the 1990 Code of Canon Law, and note that his is for the Eastern Catholic Churches.

http://www.jgray.org/codes/cceo90eng.html

Since the Liturgies of the Eastern Catholic Churches are of the same Apostolic Tradition as the Roman Rite and all stem from the ancient Churches of Alexandria and Antioch, which along with Rome were recognized as the Primatial Sees of the the Church [see Canon 6 of the Council of Nicea], the Pope has no authority to change the Liturgical Traditon and devotional traditon of the Eastern Churches. In addition, the Pope usually does not appoint Bishops in the Eastern Catholic Church, which he does for Roman Rite Bishops. Rather, Synods of the various Eastern Catholic Churches, made up of Eastern Bishops and Priests, select their Bishops and then that Bishop’s name is sent to Rome and the Pope Confirms the choice.

I hope this helps.

[Petronski]

But it’s not.

Your mirror is broken.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Those aren’t cracks; they laugh lines.

[Quix]

YUP.

Soooooooo true.

However, bureaucracies of political power mongers

are artists at word crafting; word games; word manipulations

straddling all sides of all fences as it suits them.

The Vatican is a prime example of such.

[bdeaner]

Correct, that of Jesus. All else is a creation of man.

AH! You may be coming around to seeing the Truth. Which Church did Christ Himself establish? The Catholic Church. All other churches are creations of man. You are following the logic, just not arriving at the correct conclusion.

[Quix]

Too true.

[Quix]

I see the old Vatican Rubber Bible Scripture mangling is still in active form.

[Petronski]

I didn’t say cracked.

I said broken.

In pieces.

[big'ol_freeper]

They've landed.

[driftdiver]

“All other churches are creations of man”

All churches with a name are creations of man. the only True church is the one that follows Jesus.

Jesus created the Church that is comprised of believers. That is not the Catholic Church any more than it is the Baptist.

[Petronski]

[driftdiver]

Thank you for your polite and thoughtful response.

So for the purposes of this discussion to quibble over Roman Catholic vs Catholic seems pointless. At least to a non-Catholic that a Catholic is seeking to convince.

[driftdiver]

DING!

[Petronski]

I’m sorry you’re not up to the task of precision (what you dismiss as “quibbling”).