No Salvation Outside the Church

Catholic Answers ^ | 12/05 | Fr. Ray Ryland

[driftdiver]

Yes I am a simple guy. When someone says “Simply stated, the Catholic priest is another Christ” I assume thats what they mean.

Just as when the bible DOESN’T say Christ created the Catholic Church I assume that means he didn’t.

[PugetSoundSoldier]

Those who rebuke the Seven Blessed Sacraments would certainly have a great difficulty understanding this teaching.

Because they are dogma and "sacred" because man said so, not God.

[PugetSoundSoldier]

Are you a papist, holding to the Pope being the spiritual leader of the one, true Church?

[RobRoy]

>>”no salvation outside the Church”?<<

Since I believe that the body of believers is “the church”, the answer is “yes”.

But it is a redundant question. It is like saying “no NRA membership outside the NRA membership”.

“Church” means those that are saved.

[driftdiver]

“Thank God you’re not talking about the Catholic Church.”

yeah cause we ALL know they never made people pay for forgiveness of their sins. They certainly never sold salvation.

[Petronski]

yeah cause we ALL know they never made people pay for forgiveness of their sins. They certainly never sold salvation.

That's right.

Indulgences do not obtain forgiveness of sins or salvation.

[Uri’el-2012]

The Catholic Church is "the single and exclusive channel by which the truth and grace of Christ enter our world of space and time" (Karl Adam, The Spirit of Catholicism, 179).

I do not find this claim in any of the Holy Words of Elohim.

It seems to be only in the Traditions of man.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

[Dr. Eckleburg]

I’ve had numerous Catholics tell me the Pope was elevated above man and sitting beside Jesus. I firmly believe that is what they teach.

According to the catechism of the Roman Catholic church at vatican.va...

882 - The Pope, Bishop of Rome and Peter's successor, "is the perpetual and visible source and foundation of the unity both of the bishops and of the whole company of the faithful."402 "For the Roman Pontiff, by reason of his office as Vicar of Christ, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal power over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise unhindered."403

889 - In order to preserve the Church in the purity of the faith handed on by the apostles, Christ who is the Truth willed to confer on her a share in his own infallibility. By a "supernatural sense of faith" the People of God, under the guidance of the Church's living Magisterium, "unfailingly adheres to this faith."417

891 - "The Roman Pontiff, head of the college of bishops, enjoys this infallibility in virtue of his office, when, as supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful - who confirms his brethren in the faith he proclaims by a definitive act a doctrine pertaining to faith or morals.... The infallibility promised to the Church is also present in the body of bishops when, together with Peter's successor, they exercise the supreme Magisterium," above all in an Ecumenical Council.418 When the Church through its supreme Magisterium proposes a doctrine "for belief as being divinely revealed,"419 and as the teaching of Christ, the definitions "must be adhered to with the obedience of faith."420 This infallibility extends as far as the deposit of divine Revelation itself.421

So the Holy Spirit doesn't work God's free gift of grace in the believer's heart in order for them to know the things of God and the truth of Scripture. It is the magisterium and the bishops and the pope and the priests and the Roman Catholic church which declares what Scripture means and what is "infallible."

"But ye have not so learned Christ;

If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:

That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

And be renewed in the Spirit of your mind;

And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness." -- Ephesians 4:20-24

[driftdiver]

I can see you’re also not a student of history.

[Petronski]

Are you a papist, holding to the Pope being the spiritual leader of the one, true Church?

In my 40+ years, I've never met one.

I'm a Catholic, holding to Christ being the spiritual leader of the one, true Catholic Church.

Benedict is His vicar on earth.

[Petronski]

I can see you’re also not a student of history.

You can imagine you see that, sure.

I can see you do not know what an indulgence is or does.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

lolol. No "vulgar gesture." Just "I'm watching you."

Pray for eyes to see.

[Petronski]

According to the catechism of the Roman Catholic church at vatican.va...

Nope.

You have quoted the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

[Petronski]

No "vulgar gesture."

It's right there, reposted over and over.

[PugetSoundSoldier]

The concept of penance itself - for which an indulgence is used to avoid - is non Biblical. Please show the Biblical basis for penance.

[Petronski]

So the Holy Spirit doesn't work God's free gift of grace in the believer's heart in order for them to know the things of God and the truth of Scripture.

Now there's some real blasphemy.

Of course the Holy Spirit does this. We are to known them through the Church Christ founded as the pillar and ground of the truth, the Catholic Church, protected to this day from error by that same Holy Spirit, just as Got wills it.

[Petronski]

The concept of penance itself - for which an indulgence is used to avoid - is non Biblical.

Sola Scriptura is non-Biblical.

[driftdiver]

Intentionally misquoting the Bible is Blasphemy as well.

[Petronski]

Intentionally misquoting the Bible is Blasphemy as well.

That's why I don't do that.

[Dr. Eckleburg]