No Salvation Outside the Church

Catholic Answers ^ | 12/05 | Fr. Ray Ryland

[bdeaner]

Not everyone who attends a church is a Christian, not even Catholics. It’s an individual decision one makes regarding Jesus, not rites. Many go to church and have never asked Jesus to come into their lives to be their Lord and Saviour.

You are ABSOLUTELY correct. Any true Catholic would agree with you 100%.

At least once per week in Mass, we have an 'altar call,' and the ENTIRE congregation goes up to receive Jesus into their lives all over again. EVERY WEEK. We call it the Eucharist. Those who do so without true belief,--without faith--we are taught (infallibly) that they eat and drink judgment upon themselves.

[bronxville]

The Book of Revelation and the Mass:
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/the_eucharist.html#eucharist-IIf

:)

[stfassisi]

Learned it from the Catholic church? Not hardly.

Empty statement,dear sister.

Prove your case and back it up with early Christian writings that support non Catholic interpretations of Scripture?

[Marysecretary]

I’ll stick to reading the scriptures. You can have your early church fathers’ opinions.

[Marysecretary]

You only have to ask Jesus ONCE to come into your life. ONCE.

[PugetSoundSoldier]

I have. I reject the article's claim;

"the necessity of the Church for salvation".

Jesus said HE is the Way, that faith in Him is what is required. A church - or anyone else - is not necessary for salvation. A church may help, and definitely serve as a beacon of light to bring pre-Christians to Christ, but it is not necessary at all.

And I reject Pope John Paul's statement of:

"The Church is the sacrament of salvation for all humankind, and her activity is not limited only to those who accept her message" (RM 20).

The Church may serve as a way to introduce someone to Christ, but it is NOT a sacrament. I reject that. And I suspect most of the Protestants in this thread also reject that claim.

Lastly, the writer states that:

The Catholic Church is "the single and exclusive channel by which the truth and grace of Christ enter our world of space and time"

I reject that as well. The Catholic Church is not the single and exclusive channel. I did not come to Christ by the Catholic Church, even though I was raised in the Catholic Church. Does that mean my salvation - my relationship with Jesus - is invalid?

Apparently, it is the position of the author - and many Catholics in this thread - that indeed, I am not saved because I do not accept the gatekeeper role of the Catholic Church in salvation.

Oh, I read the article, and I found it wanting!

[Marysecretary]

But not just scripture. That would be fine, but you use a lot of writings that don’t have Biblical authority. Since you don’t believe in sola scriptura, I don’t see how you can have any authority outside of it.

[bdeaner]

But to answer the question, can a person can be a Protestant, not partake in communion, and not recognize the papacy's claim of apostolic succession and still be saved?

Reading comprehension, my friend ;) Read the article. YES. YES, if they truly believe that they are following Christ by doing so, how could the Lord refuse them? But for willfully rejecting a Truth, I think,--e.g. total unwillingness to listen to reason out of pride, for example-- there has to be at least temporal punishment for that, if not eternal damnation (purgation on earth or in the hereafter, as the case may be; that is, there are natural consequences for following error rather than Truth).

This is all in the article. This is the unfolding of the Deposit of Faith revealed in Vatican II. Many "conservative" Catholics left the Church and became schismatics as a result of this doctrine. But is it infallible doctrine.

[Marysecretary]

Believers ARE the Body of Christ, not the Catholic Church. We all differ in our ‘opinions’ but the answer lies in Jesus Christ and Him alone. The basics of the faith are pretty much alike, we differ on a few extra-biblical tenets but when you have received Christ into your life, you ARE the Body of Christ.

[Marysecretary]

Don’t forget annulments of your marriage either.

[Marysecretary]

So we just let them go to hell. Nice. I will not stand before God and say I didn’t try.

[stfassisi]

I’ll stick to reading the scriptures. You can have your early church fathers’ opinions.

Without Saint Athansisus and others you don't have a Bible.

You would have to sort through the Gnostic scriptures on your own

Like it or not,you trust the Church Fathers were guided by the Holy Spirit to give you Bible canon.

[bdeaner]

If he pays enough I will let him off the hook for his good works. I call this invention an “indulgence”. Money is a great way to buy yourself out of trouble... After all, God is all about the money - cathedrals and monasteries aren’t cheap to maintain!

This statement is a gross distortion of the Catholic conception of indulgences. It may describe abuses that were happening among individuals within the Church at certain points in history (we are all sinners), but DOES NOT reflect the infallible teaching on indulgences in the Deposit of Faith. Satan loves to take what is Good and corrupt it into Evil, which is how Satan used the Good and infallible doctrine of indulgences to undermine Christ working through the people of His Church. Satan plays similar tricks with sexuality. Satan takes what is essentially Good -- sex within marriage is for procreation and the expression of love that represents the Unity of the married couple -- and perverts it into Evil, e.g. objectification of women's bodies, pornography, adultery, etc.

To clarify for the moment, indulgences, as I have said earlier in this thread, are about remediation of temporal punishment -- reversing natural consequences that result from habitual sin. They do not save a person from mortal sin that results in Eternal punishment (nor any sin for that matter) and with them, a person cannot "work" themselves to Heaven. But they can 'work' to reverse the suffering that can result from the natural consequences of habitual sin.

Granted, this is a difficult concept that even a lot of Catholics don't understand, unfortunately.

[PugetSoundSoldier]

I read the article...;) See my response in post 1406. There are several fundamental points that I simply cannot accept. According to the author of that paper, I cannot be saved.

Let me ask you: if you replaced the word Catholic in that article with Baptist, would you accept it? Would you be fine if Baptists said that their Church was the only way to salvation, was the sacrament of salvation, and that only Baptists (note the capital letters) could be saved?

[CTrent1564]

redgolum:

Finally, an honest Protestant, a Lutheran I assume, or perhaps Traditional Angilican, who is willing to call out some of the “sola-meo” Protestants on this forum for outright rejecting the Nicene Creed. I have been on this forum long enough to know there are some Protestants who are not anti Nicene Creeds, or anti Apostolic Traditon as expressed in the Councils (Nicea 325 AD; Constantinopile 381 AD; Ephesus 431 AD and Chalcedon 451 AD) and the Patristic/Church Fathers. Again, glad to see one with enough integrity to call out some of the Protestants on this forum whose authority, i.e. dogmatic interpretation of scripture, is based what they see in the mirror each morning and night.

Kudos to you sir [or mam], from this Catholic.

[bdeaner]

You only have to ask Jesus ONCE to come into your life. ONCE.

Ok, let's put your Sola Scriptura to the test. Where does it say that in your Bible? Where does it say once is enough?

[Marysecretary]

God kept the Bible intact. He may have allowed them the privilege but HE and HE alone truly preserved it.

[bdeaner]

There are several fundamental points that I simply cannot accept.

I would appreciate if you would show me a particular quotation or two that you object to, and why.

I will answer your question about Baptists, but first I need to know your objections, so I can answer the question with a mutual understanding of what we are talking about here. My interpretation of the article seems to be quite different than yours.

[bdeaner]

Kudos to you sir [or mam], from this Catholic.

Kudos from this Catholic as well, my Brother/Sister in Christ.

[stfassisi]

redgolum:

Finally, an honest Protestant

I have thought the same of redgolum.

Dear redgolum,what is it that keeps you from becoming Catholic?