No Salvation Outside the Church

Catholic Answers ^ | 12/05 | Fr. Ray Ryland

[Petronski]

I doubt you are seeking to change minds and bring people to the Catholic Church because of your tactics.

I'm not here to convert anyone. You are free to continue to wallow in ignorance if you choose.

I'm here to correct anti-Catholic lies.

[driftdiver]

“I’m here to correct anti-Catholic lies. “

So you place your pride above the Great Commission. Interesting.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Lol

[Petronski]

So you place your pride above the Great Commission. Interesting.

It's a question of basic honesty. Lie about the Catholic Church and as long as I'm here I'm going to correct the lie.

I'm not in the business of evangelizing Christians.

[PugetSoundSoldier]

I didn’t make that claim.

[cva66snipe]

I've been following this thread over 1300 post now. Why should Christians who indeed do in fact serve the same Christ be concerned over who's church is The Church? They shouldn't because as such it is a jealousy. Christ settled the issues of different sects among believers early on when His chosen 12 became jealous over a man in another sect not part of theirs doing as they in Christ name. Christ tells all of us That those who serve Him and do His will will not be able to speak evil of Him and do good things for long. It is by their fruits. Now who are we to question what Christ allowed? Christ didn't go to the man they saw and say stop it and join us.

GOD created us indeed as individuals and as individuals He deals with us in different ways just as He did Abraham, Jacob, Daniel, Job, David, and yes even His very ones chosen. He does so to achieve His will and what He wants us to do.

Christ saw their strengths and weakness and dealt with them sometimes as a group sometimes as an individual as He did Peter who was likely the most stubborn and hot tempered amongst them.

Christ did not say to His 12 nor to us Go into all nations and teach others to be Baptist, Catholics, Methodist, etc I've said the list before. He tells says to teach His Gospel to all nations.

I heard a poster addressing individualism. The Testimony of a Converted or saved Christian is the most prevailing evidence a believe can give if they themselves are walking with the Lord. But most persons doing so alos gives GOD the Glory as it should be. Nothing is wrong with individual paths in life or individual understandings. Christ plainly said He would send The Holy Spirit who would lead us to truth. The Holy Spirit teaches you, me, Preacher Smith, and the Pope and Priest.

But perhaps the most prevailing thing I see in this thread is an absence a lacking. An absence of the most basic requirement Christ gave us. No surprise as the chosen 12 had problems there too and with others who followed. Even Paul had a lack of it at times early on. It's not a Protestant/Catholic problem it is a Christian problem and some reading this thread may say good grief is this what Christianity is a family fued? No it is John 3 ;16 and a good follow up is taught by Paul below.

1 CORINTHIANS 13 1If I could speak in any language in heaven or on earth£ but didn’t love others, I would only be making meaningless noise like a loud gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I had the gift of prophecy, and if I knew all the mysteries of the future and knew everything about everything, but didn’t love others, what good would I be? And if I had the gift of faith so that I could speak to a mountain and make it move, without love I would be no good to anybody. 3If I gave everything I have to the poor and even sacrificed my body, I could boast about it;£ but if I didn’t love others, I would be of no value whatsoever. 4Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud 5or rude. Love does not demand its own way. Love is not irritable, and it keeps no record of when it has been wronged. 6It is never glad about injustice but rejoices whenever the truth wins out. 7Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance. 8Love will last forever, but prophecy and speaking in unknown languages£ and special knowledge will all disappear. 9Now we know only a little, and even the gift of prophecy reveals little! 10But when the end comes, these special gifts will all disappear. 11It’s like this: When I was a child, I spoke and thought and reasoned as a child does. But when I grew up, I put away childish things. 12Now we see things imperfectly as in a poor mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity.£ All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely, just as God knows me now. 13There are three things that will endure—faith, hope, and love—and the greatest of these is love.

Hard to do sometimes even for the most devout. The churches as such have never been under one earthly name nor have all believes and followers in Christ been exclusive to any sect.

Christians it is not your place nor your duty to convert those of whom have been saved. Jesus through the Holy Spirit called them. Now if He can call them He too as well can place them without our help and confusing them with theological issues. There are Lost Sheep to worry about not the ones found.

I went through a brief time where someone hounded me endlessly about my salvation because of the words the preacher used in Baptism. I can handle such now easilly as I know better. My wife was tormented by a well meaning Believer who told her that her lack of faith is why she could not walk. I told him to tell Joni Erickson Tada that then if some of you know who she is. GOD put her and put Joni there. For why we may never know although Joni has built a ministry to the disabled no church comes close to.

Let GOD be GOD. Be at peace with one another and as believers love one another as Christ loved you. Do that and the Orange and the Green argument's will melt away and you want be worried by it. I know because I've seen it work. Many families are of mixed churches. We don't use this kind of disagreements or sect boasting on family and we shouldn't amongst our Brothers and Sisters in Christ either. Only one is great and only one is right and true and that is Christ Himself.

We need to spend more time listening to Him we serve and less time attacking ourselves over what is The LORD's business alone. He still does talk to us ya know :>} Maybe He can't get a word in edgewise.

[Petronski]

Then you have nothing to prove.

[driftdiver]

“Lie about the Catholic Church and as long as I’m here I’m going to correct the lie.”

Really, when will you start?

“I’m not in the business of evangelizing Christians.”

So you must think Jesus was joking.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

I'm here to correct anti-Catholic lies.

But there aren't any around here to correct.

That must explain why you have so much free time.

[Petronski]

Really, when will you start?

1998.

So you must think Jesus was joking.

No.

[Petronski]

But there aren't any around here to correct.

You post them by the score.

[driftdiver]

I’ve never heard a Christian say they didn’t want to bring others to Christ. Never

Shame

[Dr. Eckleburg]

as long as I'm here I'm going to correct the lie.

But you don't' "correct" anything. Your "corrections" are a pile of "sez you" and "oh, yeah?"

[Petronski]

I’ve never heard a Christian say they didn’t want to bring others to Christ.

You haven't heard it from me either.

Let me repeat:

I’m not in the business of evangelizing Christians.

[Petronski]

But you don't' "correct" anything.

I have done it, and you have ignored it, too many times to count.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Jesus may have chosen 12 individuals but He taught them all the same faith.

It is that faith we are commanded to preach to all men.

"Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:

Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake." -- Titus 1 9-11

The Holy Spirit teaches you, me, Preacher Smith, and the Pope and Priest

I don't believe that the Holy Spirit teaches me to pray to Christ alone and teaches the Roman Catholic to pray to Mary. If these discussions have shown me anything, it is the fact Rome is very far from Zion.

God bless you and your wife.

[driftdiver]

You can try and twist the words but your meaning was clear. You are doing the devils work here.

[PugetSoundSoldier]

Now you’re just lying. I will not stand for these lies.

[stfassisi]

“”My question, simple and clear and forcefully answered by Paul, was — “do you trust yourself, and the good and pure testimony of your God-given conscience?””

It means nothing to me how you interpret Saint Paul

I consciously trust the Catholic Church that decided the canon and tells me that Saint Paul's Scripture is inspired by God and written by Saint Paul. Without the witness of the Catholic Church I would not know this since there are no signatures on ANY of the Gospels.Thus, I trust the interpretations of Scripture from the Catholic Church as divinely inspired as well.

Protestantism is about “self” interpretation that causes Christian discord when it differs from Catholic interpretations.It's nothing new either!These types heretical teaching have been seen throughout the ages.

Whenever protestantism is correct in interpreting scripture- it only knows this because it learned it from the Catholic Church first,not by it;s own accord

[stfassisi]

In think the Pope is clearly indicating that Protestantism, in many ways, with its rejection of Tradition, is the precursor for individualism and thus, atheism and secularist relativism. If my own personal interpretation of scripture, apart from the Church Fathers and Creeds, which attest to authentic Apostolic Tradition, is to binding in terms of faith and morals, this “philosophically” is consistent with the views taken by secularists today.

That was a very good analysis,Dear friend.

Thank you