No Salvation Outside the Church

Catholic Answers ^ | 12/05 | Fr. Ray Ryland

[Marysecretary]

He did, LOL.

[Petronski]

As if you understand what he’s talking about.

[Petronski]

Thinks he’s stealing my money.

You're not a very good mindreader.

[Marysecretary]

NOT one universal Catholic church. Universal catholic church. A big difference.

[Iscool]

The term "co-redemptrix" is properly translated "the woman with the redeemer" or more literally "she who buys back with [the redeemer]." The prefix "co" comes from the Latin term "cum" which means "with" and not "equal to." Co-redemptrix therefore as applied to Mary refers to her exceptional cooperation with and under her divine son Jesus Christ, in the redemption of the human family, as manifested in Christian Scripture.

Uh, Mary was NEVER manifested in scripture to be a co-redemtrix...That's an illusion by your religion

Americans know what 'co' represents, in English...AMericans know what Redeemer means, in English...

Then you guys use the term Redemtrix...Then you say co-redemtrix...But you never, ever use the term 'Cum-Redemtrix' as you claim it really is...

Coupled with the fact that so many in your religion have petitioned to have your infallible magisterium turn Mary in to the 4th person of the Trinity, I don't buy your explanation...

And then after looking at some of your Catholic prayers to Mary and even your claims that Mary participates in your salvation, I can see your definition of co-redemtrix is just a smokescreen to those of us outside your religion...

All Christians are rightly called to be co-workers or "co-redeemers" with Jesus Christ (cf. Col. 1:24) in the reception and cooperation with grace necessary for our own redemption and the redemption of others -

Not in my God's Christianity...

Fellow laborers, yes...We plant and water, yes...

But the Harvest, the Redemptions belongs to Jesus and Jesus alone...There's that alone word again...Don't you just hate that...

personal subjective redemption made possible by the historic objective redemption or "buying back" accomplished by Jesus Christ, the "New Adam," the Redemptor, and Mary, the "New Eve," the Co-redemptrix.

the New EVE??? There is no NEW EVE in the Scriptures...God didn't put any emphasis on the 'old' Eve and He certainly never mentioned a new Eve, nor does He ever allude to one...Just more attempts by your religion to elevate Mary to the position of the Mother of God, the Queen of Heaven that God warned us about in the OT...

[CTrent1564]

PugetSoundSoldier:

I am not trying to get into a “tit for tat” match with you, but what Petronski was implicitly stating is that there are different levels of authority with respect to Catholic Teaching.

I have a link from the Catholic Church at Texas A&M University, which is one of the largest Catholic Campus ministries in the Country, which does a concise job of making the distinctions between the levels of Catholic teaching.

http://marysaggies.blogspot.com/2009/05/dogma-vs-doctrine.html

For example, you will see in Level 1, dogmas and Doctrines that are related to Creedal statements, or that are not inconcistent with Scripture. For example, the author points out that Christ is “True God and True Man”, which is from the Council of Nicea (325 AD) and thus all Truths in the Nicene and Apostles Creeds are binding for all Catholics [e.g. Holy Trinity, Incarnation, Passion/Death and Resurrection and Ascension of Christ; One Baptism for the Forgiveness of Sins, the 4 Marks of the Church {One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic}, the resurrection of the dead].

Level 2 teachings, for example, include the definitive teaching on the Biblical Canon, which was not settled until the late 4th century. So, the first 370 years of Christianity did not have a settled New Testament, as that was not settled until the the time of St. Jerome [who translated the Bible into Latin, at the request of Pope Damasus, which was the Latin Vulgate, which has the same 73 books in the Catholic canon today], the time of St. Augustine [who defended the same canon that Catholics have today], and the Councils at Hippo (393 AD) and Carthage (397 AD) and the Letter by Pope Innocent to the Bishops in the region of Gaul. Here is a good article on the formation of the Canon from NewAdvent.org, which documents with precision the fact that even into the 4th century, the Letter of Hebrews and Revelation were still disputed, which of course are in your canon, following the authority of the Catholic Church, and us Catholics.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03274a.htm

Level 3 teachings include such things as the discipline of celibacy, which is not a doctrine and can be changed or suspended for example, for priests in the Latin Rite who are ordained as married priests [i.e. married Anglican and Lutheran clergy, such as the late Fr. Richard John Neuhaus, etc].

Regards

[Petronski]

NOT one universal Catholic church. Universal Catholic Church. A big difference.

Just your shoddy capitalization. But I fixed it.

[Petronski]

Americans know what 'co' represents, in English...AMericans know what Redeemer means, in English...

Yes, and the point is that deconstructing it that way, in English, distorts the original meaning, rendered in Latin.

Coupled with the fact that so many in your religion have petitioned to have your infallible magisterium turn Mary in to the 4th person of the Trinity...

That's a filthy lie.

[Mr Rogers]

Faith Alone does not, in any way, equal Intellectual Assent.

The 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith

Chapter 14: Saving Faith

14.1 The grace of faith (by which the elect are enabled to believe to the saving of their souls) is the work of the Spirit of Christ in their hearts. It is normally brought into being by the ministry of the Word. It is increased and strengthened by the ministry of the Word, and by the administration of baptism and the Lord's supper, prayer, and other means appointed by God.

14.2 By this faith, a Christian believes to be true whatever is revealed in the Word for it is the authority of God himself. We also perceive an excellency in the Word above all other writings and everything else in the world, because it shows forth the glory of God and his attributes, the excellency of Christ and his nature and offices, and the power and fullness of the Holy Spirit in his works and operations.

So believers are enabled to trust implicitly the truth they have believed, and to respond appropriately to each particular passage in Scripture, yielding obedience to the commands, trembling at the threatenings, and embracing the promises of God for this life and that which is to come.

But the principal acts of saving faith are those directly to do with Christ—accepting, receiving, and resting on him alone for justification, sanctification, and eternal life, by virtue of the covenant of grace.

14.3 This faith may differ in degree, and may be weak or strong, yet even at its weakest it is different in kind and nature (as is all saving grace) from the faith and common grace of temporary believers. Therefore, though it may be frequently attacked and weakened, it gains the victory, and develops in many until they attain full assurance through Christ, who is both the author and finisher of our faith.

[Marysecretary]

With Peter, etc. is utter nonsense. You folks really need to get a grip on what’s really true.

[Marysecretary]

Noop, not at Elim.

[Marysecretary]

Nope, Nothing shoddy about my capitalization. YOU are the one who is wrong.

[Iscool]

My parents were brought up in the Norwegian Lutheran Church and were married in one here in the US but because there was no Lutheran church in town, they went to the Episcopal Church instead, where I was until a teenager

My inlaws parents: One side came from Norway and the other from Lithuania...The father in law has close ties to relatives in Norway...Has visited a number of tmes...Some from Norway came here to visit...

Guess I was expecting aliens from another planet but they seemed to as normal as we are...lol...Are we normal???

[stfassisi]

So is that a “no,” you do NOT trust yourself, and the good and pure testimony of your God-given conscience?

I just told you that I trust my perception of sacrificial love being Christlike in the lives of the Saints. Thus,I consciously believe that all TRUE love is grounded in Christ.

Again, I don't see that reflection of TRUE and sacrificial love in the teachings of calvinism. I consciously reject many of calvin's teachings.

[Iscool]

Perhaps you can explain to your (our) Protestant Brother why it's heresy to reject the Nicene Creed. A big fan of Arius, apparently? For some anti-Catholic people, I can say "white is white," and he or she would say "No, it's black," merely because it is the words of a Catholic.

I have come to realize that when something is a heresy to your religion, one might be able to wear that as a badge of honor...

[Petronski]

The Catholic Church is the pillar and foundation of Truth. It is Christ’s promise to us.

[stfassisi]

The Scriptures you wrongly interpret are in conflict with these ones....

“I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. “ The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? Then Jesus said unto them, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. “Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.” John 6:51-54

If you REALLY believe in Jesus Christ, you would believe what He said, and not your own private ideas and interpretations. The Church has taught it for 2000 years, but you seem to think you know better. Perhaps you need to worry whether you’re reject Christ

“He that hears you hears me, and he that despises you despises me, and he that despises me despises him that sent me.” Luke 10:16

I’m Off to Adoration Of the Blessed Sacrament-I’ll pray for you

[Marysecretary]

Yes we’re normal. LOL. I went to Norway with my mother in 1983. It was wonderful to meet my relatives there. They all speak English. I would love to go back again. Two of my cousins have visited us, one twice. Nice, Nice, people.

[Marysecretary]

I don’t need to be. Your comments say it clearly enough.

[Marysecretary]

Yes, the universal catholic church is. The Catholic Church is not.