Posted on 12/27/2008 2:48:02 PM PST by NYer
Protestants receive communion in remembrance of what Christ did on the cross; Catholics receive communion to get salvation.
This is the great divide between the two religions.
Catholics follow the command to eat his flesh and drink his blood; Protestants must deny that command to claim any legitimacy.
In hebrews, Chapt 2, it is clearly pointed out that if after tasting the heavenly gift, they turn away, their fate is worse than never knowing Jesus at all. They had the gift, they were saved, yet they chose to turn away. One cannot lose what they never posessed, so the from the beginning part is not what I am referring to. There is much in scripture that tells us that.
There is also the matter of those who firmly believed they kept all that Jesus said and asked yet he tells them he never knew them. Perhaps you or I are one of them. We presume we know, as those folks did, what Jesus wanted. What if one or both of us is wrong?
No, there is no assurance of salvation. It is something that he offers to us, we must accept, and then work out with fear and trembling and endure to to the end. Jesus and the apostles say many things that are contradictory if one or the other view is the only view. Jesus speaks in Jn 3:16 about belief, we are told by paul we are saved by grace, faith without works is dead, yet we will be judged by our works, Jesus tells the woman who touched his cloak her faith has saved her. There are more things like this thru out scripture.
It is a trick of the devil, to convince believers to let their guard down. They believe they cannot forfeit their salvation even though scripture is full of exhortations to believers about not sinning, not doing as the others do, not falling away, not being unevenly yoked. There would be no reason to do this if the wages of sin were not death and seperation from God. If we were not subject to that after accepting Christ, then what purpose do those warnings have?
I do believe that Christ will give us sufficient grace to handle every situation, but it is up to us to accept that grace and allow it to work in our lives,as well as ask for more constantly. They were not written for unbelievers or scoffers, as they don’t believe. No, they were written for Christians, and since God is the same yesterday, today and always, we must believe that they are relevant to us.
As to never really being saved to begin with, that brings me to my final point. How can you be so sure that you will never lose your faith. Therefore, how can you with certainty or presumption as scripture calls it, be 100% certain you are without a doubt saved? As I told you before in my original post, extremely devout family, over long period, lost their faith. were they never saved or did they choose to walk away? how do you or I know how we will react to things adverse in our lives? It is easy to say we will never walk away, but until put to the test, one does not know for sure. I think the world is going to test Christians as never before in the coming year. Many will start to rethink the once saved always saved during their crisis. Thank you for an excellent debate, and keeping comments within the bounds of Christian decorum :)
BTW, Jesus did not come to change the law, he came to fufill it. We live under law as Christians. We no longer need blood sacrifice, as his blood is the one and only, but Jesus’ own words were that he came to fufill not change. The 10 commandments, the spirit of the law is what he fufilled. The Jews added so much to the law for their own gain it made God angry. Jesus came to get back to what God intended in the law, His law, and that is what Jesus referred to a fufill the law, not change it. Divorce was one issue that he points out. Man made for convenience, abolished by Christ.
sadly, you are correct on this issue. It is the very reason that I do not bash the protestant faith, of which I was a member (Baptist) for several years. I developed a deep love of scripture and much study. I was a cradle catholic, but left the church because of that. I now know that it was my fault and mine alone that it happened. The church encourages scripture reading, hosts bible studies, and reads the entire bible through every couple of years at Mass. It is the parishoners themselves that do not pick it up at home, not lack of exhortation to.
How charitable of you.
This verse is not denominational specific. The subject is WHOEVER. And one of the most important scriptures to me is the two part action that took place when Christ gave up the breath on that Cross. That miracle of that veil in the Holy of the Holies was rent from TOP to bottom.... NO longer was there the requirement for any who would believe to have to go through a flesh man to have 'communion' with the Heavenly Father. Christ became that one on one intermediary.
How often did Christ take communion? Is the number of times one takes it gives one a higher reward?
There appears to be so much that you don't understand...
Christians do not live under the law...THAT is what Jesus fulfilled...The law is a curse...We are no longer under the curse...We will not be judged by the law unless we chose to live under the law...
And that's why your statement about divorce is wrong...Sure, divorce displeases God...But you certainly won't go to hell for it...
You apparenlty know little about Christian liberty...
Jesus did not come to enforce the law...He came to be the Messiah for the Jews and then to give us salvation 'in spite' of our inability to keep the law...
There are many GREAT divides but yes, that is one of them...
Are you saying that the Ten Commandments no longer apply? You think Christ broke even one of them? He did set the standard.
>>To me , it is absolutely stunning the lack of knowledge that Catholics have of the Bible. Where as a kid, we Protestants were absolutely drilled on scripture, Catholics (even with catechism)only learn Dogma and tradition of RC Church.<<
I agree. I have been married 20 years to a Catholic and he knows no scripture and chooses not to read or discuss it. He only attends church at Easter and Christmas.
LOL...You guys claim the tradition of your relgion is at least equal to the word of God...
I claim the word of God is above all and I defend that belief...If that's Christian pride to you, go for it...
The post you referred to was pretty much a statement of fact. I can show you "uncharitable," but I'm trying to cut down.
You mean after Pagan Rome joined with the separatist church and Rome provided the newly formed Catholic church with it's vast armies???
The Christians (the universal church) who refused to join with Pagan Rome and the emerging Catholic church were branded as heretics and murdered as well...
I can tell you from blessed experience all the bible reading in the world can not restrain sin like that “cracker.”
This may be true for protestants, but in Baptist communion the minister clearly states that the bread/crackers and grape juice (we don’t use wine) are only “symbols”.
No,you claim that your personal interpretations of the word of God is above all.
In doing so you elevate your PERSONAL interpretations above those who decided New Testament canon and the early Christians who consistently interpreted scripture through the ages.
By this analogy you trash the martyr's and Saints and think God is using you to correct them.
Nope...I'm saying the condemnation of breaking the Ten Commandments doesn't apply...
You think Christ broke even one of them? He did set the standard.
Did Jesus work on the Sabbath???
Well lets see what the bible says about it...Because I agree with the scriptures...
Gal 3:22 But the Scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
We are no longer under the condemnation of the law...The law is no longer the law but our teacher...
How do you know what is a sin if you do not read the Bible? And how often to you take your cracker to restrain sin? And no I am not joking or making fun, I do not understand exactly what you mean.
The Batists I knew were southern Baptists, including members of the SBC, but also independents. All had closed communion and required a letter. IAC, Communion, particupationin the Lord’s Supper has significance. To the extent they think about the theology behind it, many come closer to Calvin than to Zwingli. My reading of the Institutes persuades me that Calvin’s views were closer to being Catholic than those of many liberal Catholics, including some priests. Some liberal nuns seem to be , unconsciously, Baptist.
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