Protestants and Sola Scriptura

Catholic Net ^ | George Sim Johnston

[Quix]

I don’t think they really understand it either.

However, usually, the RC Pied-Pipered folks are great at parroting the RC magicsterical’s hysterical, fantasies and pontifications.

[Quix]

Has it escaped your attention that much of the New Testament was written AFTER Paul was martyred? This is a FACT which is universally agreed upon.

Considering that Paul wrote MOST of the NT . . .

That must have been some trick!

Unless, of course, Paul's corpse engaged in "automatic writing" . . . akin to

Magnificent Magical Earth-Mother Mary's:

--fantasized Immaculate Conception;
--fantasized bodily ascension;
--fantasized childlessness post Jesus' birth;
--fantasized galactic cluster worth of concocted "GRACES" built on the toothpick of "full of grace;"
--fantasized apparitional appearances of the caricature;
--fantasized miraculous images;
--fantasized intercessions;
-- . . .

Evidently the "universally agreed upon" phrase is out of the RC edifice's magicsterical's rubber dictionary.

[Chaguito]

Oh, I see what you are saying about the woman bruising the serpent's head. It is the catechism that says that that is the correct translation. So, what you are doing is begging the question. Your conclusion is that Mary is foreshadowed in this passage, and you use that conclusion as the premise for your argument.

Every other translation I have been able to find says that the "seed" of Eve will crush the serpent's head. The Latin says "...her seed, the same will crush your head..." which seems to refer to the seed (Jesus Christ) as the one doing the head-bruising.

So, since your catechism contradicts every other translation out there (of the 12 I have checked so far), perhaps you have to explain Genesis 3:15, rather than your protestant friend to whom you addressed your challenge.

[conservativegramma]

Has it escaped your attention that much of the New Testament was written AFTER Paul was martyred? This is a FACT which is universally agreed upon.

Universally agreed upon by WHOM? Paul was martyred 64 A.D. so let’s check your ‘assertion’ out shall we??? Dates When New Testament Books Were Written with Source Citations.

Books written before:

Mark - Mark was most likely written sometime in the early 50's or late forties.

Luke - it could not have been completed any later than the early 60's or late 50's.

Acts - The books of Luke and Acts are one continous narrative, Acts is essentially volume 2 of the book of Luke. Since the book of Acts ends with Pauls's first stay in prison in Rome, with no date set for his trial, and the persecutions of Christians by Nero (A.D. 64) not having yet taken place, it could not have been written any later than A.D. 63.

Romans - Paul wrote the letter to the Romans during his three month stay in Greece in A.D. 57.

I Corinthians - Corthinthians was written by Paul while he was in Ephesus during his third missionary journey near the end of his stay in Ephesus in the year A.D. 55.

II Corinthians - The date this letter was written is approximately A.D. 55.

Galatians – Most likely date A.D. 48

Ephesians - These four letters were written by Paul while he was in prison in Rome during the years A.D. 60-62.

Phillippians - These four letters were written by Paul while he was in prison in Rome during the years A.D. 60-62.

Colossians - These four letters were written by Paul while he was in prison in Rome during the years A.D. 60-62.

I Thessalonians - Written during Paul's second mission journey while he was in Corinth, a short time after leaving Thessanolica -- A.D. 50 or 51.

II Thessalonians - Written during Paul's second mission journey while he was in Corinth, a short time after writing 1 Thessanolians -- A.D. 50 or 51.

Philemon - These four letters were written by Paul while he was in prison in Rome during the years A.D. 60-62.

Titus - Written between Paul's release from a Roman prison in A.D. 62 and his re-imprisonmet and martyrdom in A.D. 64.

I Timothy - Written between Paul's release from prison in A.D. 62 and his re-imprisonmet and martyrdom in A.D. 64.

II Timothy - Written from prison just before Paul was martyred in A.D. 64.

James - James was martyred in A.D. 62, and thus this letter had to have been written prior to then. It may have been written as early as the late 30's. However, some of the internal evidence, such as the references to "diaspora" tend to favor a later date rather than a earlier date.

Books written after:

Matthew - Common material in Matthew and Mark indicate that Matthew was written after Mark. Since Mark dates from AD 45-60 Matthew most likely was written after that. Internal evidence in Matthew indicates it was written prior to the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70.

John - The Rylands fragment of the book of John was found in Egypt and dated to the year A.D. 135. As it would require several decades, for copying and circulation of this book, until it reached the Egyptian hinderland a date in the 90's makes sense. This agrees with the tradition dating of John by the early church, and the Apostle John's death in the late 90's.

1 Peter - Because of this letter's references to severe persecution, this letter is dated to just prior to Peter's death during the period oif Nero's persecution of Christians in A.d. 64-65.

II Peter - This letter's writter identifies himself as the writter of 1 Peter. Thus this letter is dated after 1 Peter and before Peter's martyrdom, giving it a date before A.D. 68, which is the latest date for Peter's execution.

I John - We do not know when these letters where written. Their content indicates a later date. With the latest date of John's death set at A.D. 98, it appears likely that these letters were written in the A.D. 90's.

II John – See above.

III John – See above.

Revelation - John states that he is writting Revelation while on the island of Patmos. His imprisonment there occurred near the end of his life, in the A.D. 90's. Thus a later date of A.D. 96-97 appears to be the most likely.

Questionable –

Hebrews - The author of Hebrews is unknown, although many suspect that it might be Paul. We know that Hebrews had to have been written prior to A.D. 95, because Clement of Rome cites Hebrews in his Epistle to the Corinthians. WE also know that Timothy was still alive when Hebrews was written. And it is likely that it was written prior to A.D. 70, because the destruction of the Temple in A.D. 70 would have been a powerful argument supporting Christ's sacrifice replacing the oferings in the temple. There is no evidence that eliminates an earlier date in the 40's. So a date anywhere within a range from A.D. 40 to 69 A.D. is possible.

Jude - We do not have a solid date for the writing of Jude. As a result there is a wide difference in opinions concerning when this book was written. Most historians agree that it was written during Jude's ministry in Palestine in the A.D. 60's to A.D. 80's.

There are 27 Books of the New Testament. We know that (see above) 17 were written before 64 A.D. and that 8 were written post 64 A.D. with 2 that could fall into either camp. Doing my math here equates to 63% of the New Testament was written before Paul’s martyrdom in 64 A.D. only 30% written after with 7% questionable. Even IF you put the questionable into the after column you would still only have 37% of the Books written post 64 A.D. Not sure where you get 'much' of it when its only 8 books out of 27 but whatever. Also not sure where you went to school that you can't do the %'s on this one to figure out that at best 37% does NOT EQUAL MUCH. Suffice it to say you’re ‘wrong’. And if you're WRONG on this, what ELSE are you wrong on?????

[conservativegramma]

Do you know what an infant is? Do they sin?

The better question is do YOU?

[conservativegramma]

An infant who is born and dies one minute later, has this child committed an actual sin?

Born in sin yes, committed no, and you believe this also or you would not practice infant baptism as the RCC does.

[Quix]

Oh, I see what you are saying about the woman bruising the serpent’s head. It is the catechism that says that that is the correct translation. So, what you are doing is begging the question. Your conclusion is that Mary is foreshadowed in this passage, and you use that conclusion as the premise for your argument.
Every other translation I have been able to find says that the “seed” of Eve will crush the serpent’s head. The Latin says “...her seed, the same will crush your head...” which seems to refer to the seed (Jesus Christ) as the one doing the head-bruising.

So, since your catechism contradicts every other translation out there (of the 12 I have checked so far), perhaps you have to explain Genesis 3:15, rather than your protestant friend to whom you addressed your challenge.

= = =

GREAT points.

= = =

Now now . . . we probably need to be slightly more compassionate . . . be gentle . . . so much truth thrown at them in one post can contribute to

—apoplexy . . .
—or hives . . .
—or frothing at the mouth or fingers . . .
—or abuse button sitting marathons . . .
—or endless loop genuflections . . .
—or incoherently spouted “HAIL GRACEFUL ONE, FULL OF GRAPES” . . .
—or thrashing around on the floor screaming “UNFAIR PROTTYS! UNFAIR PROTTYS! PROTTYS TRUTH TELLING IS UNFAIR!”

[Quix]

Thanks.

Great points.

[Petronski]

Do you limit yourself to John 13:34, or do you use all of Scripture?

Thought so.

[SoothingDave]

Painting with a broad brush to score petty points on the internet is pretty ugly. But if Jesus condones your bigotry, I guess that’s good enough for you.

[SoothingDave]

Dates When New Testament Books Were Written with Source Citations.

Whay are you appealing to an outside authority? You can't do that and believe in Sola Scriptura.

[Quix]

. . .limit yourself . . .

do you mean . . .

In the same way the RC magicsterical political power-mongers limit themselves to "full of grace" when constructing their skyscrapers of fantasized dogma on that toothpic?

[Fichori]

" --fantasized childlessness post Jesus' birth;" [excerpt]

Well, maybe James was born first.

Except for Matthew 1:23-24:

Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:

And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

[emphasis mine]

[SoothingDave]

An infant who is born and dies one minute later, has this child committed an actual sin?

Born in sin yes, committed no

So then "ALL have sinned" that you like to quote must not really mean "all" without exception.

Thank you for finally answering. I imagine you will cease citing this against Mary now that you recognize that the statement does indeed allow for exceptions.

[Iscool]

Then go back to Genesis 3:15. The enmities put between "the woman" and Satan are THE SAME as the enmities put between Jesus Christ and Satan. Moreover, the verse clearly states that SHE shall crush the head of Satan.

Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Not in the majority texts, it doesn't...Like I said, you have to pervert the Greek if you want to change the translation...

[Quix]

painting with a broad brush . . .

Oh, you mean as in . . .

The broad brush the RC magicsterical paints with out of the microscopic cup of paint inherent in "full of grace?"

LOL! ROLTFLOL!

[Petronski]

You can have eleventy jillion gallons of gasoline, but without a car, you will not be driving anywhere.

[Quix]

Love your points.

Thx.

[Fichori]

"Do you limit yourself to John 13:34, or do you use all of Scripture?

Thought so."

As you may recall, I then asked:

"Or did you have another in mind."

[Quix]

For the uninitiated . . .

"bigotry"

AS USED HERE . . . is taken from the

RC magicsterical rubber dictionary . . . to wit[less]:

"BIGOTRY" = anything that disagrees in the slightest from the RC magicsterical's endlessly fantasized and concocted--out of thin air and built on toothpics--dogmas.