Posted on 05/02/2008 2:09:51 PM PDT by Augustinian monk
"That’s a big statement, sir. Are you sure that you can back it up in front of the Throne?"
Again, all those cry Lord, Lord.
Rejecting the Church in favour of churches of men does not seem to me to be the most prudent in attempting to attain salvation.
***But it is obvious that the Church of Christ is made up of many.***
Those who follow Him. Not those who follow heretics and power seekers. Luther did not die an impoverished monk, and neither did Calvin. Their vows of poverty were forgotten in their heady rush to power.
***Irony in post 1142 ping***
Uh huh.
I bought that Bible many, many years ago. I don’t even know where it is but I should take it out and try it again. It was interesting.
When WE decide for Christ to come into our lives, we have the DNA. Not to worry.
Why should we? The pictures we do have suffice beautifully. We don’t worship pictures or statues or anything of the sort. We worship HIM in spirit and in truth.
Thank you for the kind words, Mark.
I wish more churches had stained glass windows, too, especially the more modern ones. They are terribly expensive and not too many artists do them anymore.
Jesus is the only one who answers the prayers but we need to pray for one another, sometimes daily. Protestants have prayer meetings all the time. Ours is on Wednesdays. Nothing gets done without prayer. I’ve never met any protties who don’t believe in prayers (these are the born again protties, mind you. I don’t know about liberal ones.)
The churches I’ve attended over the years always had mid week prayer gatherings.
I heartily agree with your thoughts about some charismatics being supervised. Our pastor never would allow crazy stuff to go on if he felt it was in the flesh. He was very cautious. If it was of God, he didn’t try to stop it.
***When WE decide for Christ to come into our lives, we have the DNA. Not to worry.***
Careful, here. Your Reformed colleagues might not quite agree with you.
LOL. Lots of people here might not agree with me. That’s okay.
Yes. And because of what I have learned on FR, if someone asked me what the Catholic position was I would have said essentially exactly that.
I wish I could find the quote, but I can't. But recently Benedict XVI said that we have to start thinking about Protestantism differently. It's one thing to make a schism. It's quite another, he was suggesting (I stress "suggesting") to be an 8th generation Protestant, or to have been brought up in a Protestant or pluralistic culture and to have made a commitment to Christ but not to an organization in communion with the See of Rome.
Would you characterize this quote as a turning away from his reaffirmation of Dominus Iesus last July? Naturally, many Protestants worldwide were very offended by that. Dismay and anger as Pope declares Protestants cannot have churches . I realize this was nothing new, but I never understood the need to reopen an already caused wound. I mean, as far as I knew, this Pope was virtually uninterested in talking with (as opposed to down to :) Protestants.
Even Baptists can be saved. I know that's hard to believe. But we have a Lord so incredibly more gracious and loving than human hearts would dare imagine that there are even one or two lawyers in heaven!
I am honored, sir! :) God is indeed VERY forgiving. I can't wait to swap lawyer jokes with Calvin. :)
When I as an Episcopal priest pronounced absolution to someone who was appropriately penitent and who, by grace, trusted in the love and forgiveness of God, MAYBE that person was forgiven. ( I would even say "probably".) But when an appropriately penitent and faithful RC receives absolution, he is sure enough absolved.
It is great that you served as a priest. And, I suppose it is predictable that I understand neither the "maybe" nor the "sure enough" as presented. :) Assuming that the requirement (?) for a human conduit for forgiveness of sins is found solely in John 20:23, in apparent contradiction to the great weight of scripture that Jesus forgave (paid for) all sins of all believers on the cross (IMO), what is your view on what would happen if a Catholic REGULARLY decided to just pray directly to God by himself for the forgiveness of his sins? From the Catholic POV as I see it, one answer might be that it counts the same because the faith is there. Another answer might be that it doesn't count because it violates how the Church interprets scripture, and therefore faith, as the Church sees it, would be lacking.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
“Your Reformed colleagues might not quite agree with you.”
It’s always interesting to see the Reformation or Calvin or others thrown at us as if that’s supposed to prove something.
I suppose we could start discussing some of the less than savory popes or something.
You’re funny. Agents of Henry VIII - no friend of Catholicism - had him captured and killed in Holland.
Did I mention Catholicism anywhere in the above passage?
But it was the Roman Catholic Church that did instigate the persecution against Tyndale.
***And why would anyone care what More said about anything? Tyndale is ranked with Shakespeare as the greatest individual influence on the English language. *** ]
By whom?
By anyone who knows anything about the subject.
I suppose that Sts. Ambrose and Augustine don’t matter either.
Not in regards to getting the Bible translated into the English language they don't!
William Tyndale was the Captain of the Army of Reformers, and was their spiritual leader. Tyndale holds the distinction of being the first man to ever print the New Testament in the English language. Tyndale was a true scholar and a genius, so fluent in eight languages that it was said one would think any one of them to be his native tongue. He is frequently referred to as the “Architect of the English Language”, (even more so than William Shakespeare) as so many of the phrases Tyndale coined are still in our language today.
http://www.greatsite.com/timeline-english-bible-history/william-tyndale.html
Every person who has been blessed through a sound English Bible through the past four centuries owes a large debt to the humble translator who was faithful unto death. The Tyndale Bible literally transformed the nation of England. Multitudes of commoners, for example, were driven to learn to read and thus arise out of illiteracy, by their motivation to study the Bible in their own tongue. The excitement and change which was wrought in British society by the distribution of the first printed English Bible cannot properly be described. The 16th century historian John Foxe, who carefully documented the persecutions of that era, noted, “Everybody that could bought the book or busily read it or got others to read it to them if they could not themselves, and divers more elderly people learned to read on purpose. And even little boys flocked among the rest to hear portions of the holy Scripture read.”
The Tyndale Bible changed the destiny of nations. It even created one out of whole cloth—the United States of America. The Bible brought to America by its first settlers in the early 1600s was the Geneva Bible, an edition of the Tyndale, and the Bible upon which America’s political documents were based in the late 1700s was the King James Bible, another edition of Tyndale.
http://www.wayoflife.org/articles/williamtyndale.htm
I am sorry, that is the King James Bible.
***William Tyndale was the Captain of the Army of Reformers, and was their spiritual leader. Tyndale holds the distinction of being the first man to ever print the New Testament in the English language.***
Y’all are really funny. Let’s be honest here and look at the history of English Bibles. And Wyclif preceded Tyndale by 150 years.
But John Wycliffe with his 1382 version of the Bible was not the first person to give English speaking people the Bible in their own tongue, as a popular misguided myth would have it. We have copies of the work of Caedmon from the 7th century, and that of the Venerable Bede, Eadhelm, Guthlac, and Egbert from the 8th (all in Saxon, the prevalent language at that time). From the 9th and 10th centuries come the translations of King Alfred the Great and Aelfric, Archbishop of Canterbury. Early English versions include that of Orm around 1150, the Salus Animae (1250), and the translations of William Shoreham, Richard Rolle (d.1349), and John Trevisa (c.1360).
Other languages are also represented in the list of “vernacular” Catholic Bibles. We can find a translation of the Bible from 1290, written in French, a translation into Dutch (about 1270), and a translation into German (about 1350). Between 1466 and the onset of the Protestant Reformation in 1517, at least fourteen editions appeared in High German, and five in Low German. From 1450 to 1550, for example, there appeared (with express permission from Rome) more than 40 Italian editions or translations of the Bible and eighteen French editions, as well as others in Bohemian, Belgian, Russian, Danish, Norwegian, Polish, and Hungarian. Spain published editions in Spanish starting in 1478.
It is important to remember, that ALL of these vernacular Bibles were “Catholic” Bibles. Remember, the Reformation had not yet occurred. The key issue for the Catholic Church was NOT translating the Bible into vernacular languages, as some say, but simply insuring that the translations were accurate translations.
***It’s always interesting to see the Reformation or Calvin or others thrown at us as if that’s supposed to prove something.***
As the seed is planted, so grows the tree.
***Did I mention Catholicism anywhere in the above passage?
But it was the Roman Catholic Church that did instigate the persecution against Tyndale. ***
Why would Henry, an enemy of the Church, carry out its bidding on Tyndale?
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