Posted on 04/27/2008 3:36:18 AM PDT by markomalley
This is your belief and you are entitled to it.
A sufficient volume of selections from Scripture of indeterminate relevance to the question are proffered. When their relevance is questioned or the chain of reasoning which leads from the quotes to the point they are supposed to support is asked for, the answer is that if you had the Holy Spirit guiding you you'd see that the scriptures proved the point. Your failure to see it is, by implication, explained as a lack of inspiration.
This thread has achieved terminal silliness. I would say post #29 , with its presentation as fact the conjecture that the priesthood comes from people craving power, was the beginning of the rot. Before it reached #50 the harpies had come out to play, and the feast was fouled. Soon we have the old trick of presenting the opinions and actions of the opponents in the worst possible light combined with huffing and puffing because the opponents actually dared to say one might be wrong.
Gost 2 in #145 finally let the cat out of the bag (I'll try to define the cat later)
Right. Well Roman Catholicism is an affront to me. I’m sorry if you can’t stand that fact. Roman Catholicism is not respectful of Protestantism. Every time I see the Pope my gorge rises. I’m sorry. That’s just the way it is. That you can’t respect my heartfelt feelings on this subject is equally disrespectful.This comes down to
The cat is that in Protestantism generally reason is views as a whore (I'm told Luther said that) and so corrupt that it is really not valuable in any important way. To the full-blown, "hard-shell", total depravity Protestant there really is nothing to be gained by being or attempting to be reasonable. In the absence of reason, passions (which would seem to me to be at least as corrupt as reason) are exalted and given the place which I try (sometimes -- on my good days) to give to reason in my choices and actions.
In my opinion this is a failure in understanding the relationship between faith and reason. And this failure, again IMHO, had a centrifugal effect on the bodies which separated from the Catholic Church (it's hard to negotiate unity when what's on the table is whose feelings are the strongest), and quite naturally led to to the excesses of pietiesm, quietism, and what I think of as nouveau Montanism.
These, in their turn called forth the reactions of stolid and sterile broad church Anglicanism, Deism, and what I think of as New England rationalism, which in it's turn lead to transcendentalism and the invasion of New England by Hinduism, Buddhism and their degenerate cousin, Theosophy. (Which was shortly followed by the Kennedys whose nominal Catholicism is pretty much negated by their enthusiastic embrace of most of the mortal sins - but this IS a political forum ....)
But the real deal is that when reason is no longer considered a gift which works in concert with faith, revelation, and other graces, then sooner or later it comes down to calling one another names.
Now hosepipe in #138 articulates his objection to our Eucharistic thinking. I think he misses that while in the "I am the Bread" discourse IHS talks about flesh, in the Synoptic last supper he says body. I would take "body" to adumbrate and "flesh out" (little joke there) the Eucharistic doctrine. I would go on to say that it is the risen Body whose substance is now in the consecrated what-used-in-our-opinion-to-be-bread and there is good reason, based on Paul's discourse about resurrection, to think that that is a "spiritual body".
I would go on to want to explore with hosepipe our differing ecclesiologies and Eucharistic theology because, from MY POV he "over-spiritualizes" both "Church" and the Sacrament. (I would venture to guess he thinks I over-"flesh-ize" both of them.) I think this would be a good conversation.
Unfortunately, in this environment it would be very difficult to carry on, because every few minutes somebody would fell impelled by his passions or conscience or the Spirit or something to burst in and tell somebody else how very wicked and evil his thinking and the group from which it comes are.
Earlier I said,
I don’t think some of our interlocutors are capable or desirous of discussing differences without showing disrespect. I don’t think they know or want to know about the kind of argument in which both sides lose to the truth. And seem neither to know or to care to know about the politeness and gentleness with which deeply held beliefs must be discussed if understanding is to be possible.I think I have presented an explanation for this what-seems-to-me-to-be-an-incapacity and given an example of what I think it its cost, namely a useful and informative disagreement on both Church and Eucharist.
And so, buh-bye! When reason and courtesy are despised, no good talk or fellowship is likely.
Thank You..
My tag line is the prayer revealed by Mary to St Catherine Laboure. It may astonish you to know that I can hold in my mind both the doctrine of Mary’s Immaculate Conception and I John 1:8 with no difficulty. But I will not discuss it (as “discussion” seems to be understood on FR) here.
And, as you point out, 'catholic' is quite imprecise.
And, do you consider 'Papist' to be offensive? If so, you probably need to take it up with the American Papist http://www.americanpapist.com/, the postmodern papist, and others of that faith.
Superb.
Don’t thank me. You’re entitled to it no matter what I would say.
(private response)
My tag line is the prayer revealed by Mary to St Catherine Laboure.”
We don’t have to discuss it.
Just tell me where the info that “Mary revealed it to St Catherine Laboure” comes from.
Trust me the Presence in the Euracharist is something undescribable... Having the Sacrament of Penance to cleanse us is refreshing. I feel very Comfortable following the Church That Jesus Personally Founded and Following his Commandments and Precious Gems of Wisdom inspired from the Holy spirit Through his Saints! The Catholic Bible Maintained by the Church is always an answer to my Situational decision!
Your Concept of Faith and Reason is out of Kilter! Of Course we sin...we try to cleanse our soul Throough Confession and better our Interior Life... you don’t like That Christ and The Holy spirit spoke through Saints so I won’t explain the 7 levels of Interior Life..of the Soul!
I have the impression that you lead the pack vis a vis that Scriptural violation . . . which makes it more than a little incongruous that you post it so often.
Reaction formation?
I think Rome dispenses shoulder chips with “holy” water, rosaries, wafers, plastic Magnificent Magical Earth-Mother Marys, Rubber Bibles, Rubber histories, Rubber dictionaries . . . it’s all part of their business, power-mongering monopoly of their magicsterical.
Thanks tons. A few notice now and then.
Thankfully, my students get a bigger dose, usually.
Just kind of bubbles out.
No wonder your theology is all twisted up...
The event you call a Passion wasn't a wedding...The Last Supper wasn't a Marriage supper...There hasn't been any Marriage Supper...There hasn't been a Wedding...
Like I said earlier, the Scripture is a definate hindrance to their religion...
But the main thing is that it is not the teaching of the Church.
Only since Vatican II...Countless numbers of Christians have been slaughtered for failure to bow down to your pope in times past...
And NOW, we are looked at as the 'red-headed step child'...
But I believe 'that' position is taken only to appease the 'almost' Catholic, Protestant groups to try to win them back to your group...
There is still plenty of literature on the Net, which shows that your church's position is that there is 'still' NO salvation outside the Catholic church...There are Catholics on these threads who have indicated they believe the same thing...
Thank you for your love of freedom.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.