Book on Mary turns runaway youngster immersed in drugs and crime into a priest

Visions of Jesus ^ | February 2004

[Judith Anne]

As well as that darn Elizabeth.

[Judith Anne]

That is just a pathetic prayer. Talk about your mind-control, what a dreadful example of same.

[Judith Anne]

Certainly. And the vessel of Jesus' birth has nothing to do with Abraham's salvation, your salvation or my salvation.

One of the things that bothers me the most about this remark is that it reduces the blessed (according to scripture) mother of my Savior, Christ Jesus, to nothing more than a walking womb. A "vessel" could be a mechanical uterus. What about the scriptural statement, "All generations shall call me blessed"? Did that just not happen? What about her statement, "Be it done unto me according to Thy Will"? Was that not said in the Bible?

[tiki]

I tired of trying.

Good, I can only speak for myself but that would be a breath of fresh air.

I studied Catholicism for years before I converted, I have been involved with anti-Catholic threads on FR since Easter 2000 and my faith has only been strengthened.

I’ve read the dreaded Chick dude and laughed until I cried and wondered that anyone could be sooooo ignorant and prayed because I felt the hate, the frustration of his inability to essentially destroy the church that Jesus founded.

I’ve probably read as much anti-Catholic babble than and I’ve yet to see anything that would make me believe the way they do.

JMO, but I don’t think there is a non-Catholic out there with the intellectual stamina to really discuss Catholicism without skewing what we believe.

[Manfred the Wonder Dawg]

You appear to be a typical RC - presuming to know what a man cannot know: the motives of another. Must be something the RCC teaches folk.

The source wasn’t provided for reasons I’ve already cited. Perhaps you can read the posting, since you cannot read my mind - no matter hard you blink your text.

[Mad Dawg]

Allow me to, you should excuse the expression, blow my own horn:
Check it out ...
... and take seriously (for the sake of argument) what I say about "malleable memory".

I think many people who seem to be just plain nasty actually have succeeded in persuading themselves that they mean well and are doing the right thing. Isaiah (he of the common voting securities in the forestry industry - aka "stock of a tree") speaks of those who take refuge in lies and take shelter in falsehoods. I really think that this actually is closer to any of us than is comfortable, but some are trapped in the maze and are no more capable of insight than I am of flight.

Many of us have the experience of being unpleasantly surprised by the loving admonitions of friends who see what we are doing better than we ourselves do. And of that group many will just blip it out, deny it, turn away from it, pretend it isn't so.

And failing to see self-contradictions in some religious views and behaviors is a pretty mild variant of what can be a severe problem.

Though I have differences with Dr. Peck, I think there really is something to

and we need to have our gain turned on "high" to discriminate between intentional evil and severe denial.

But much of this is not that severe. Here is this big old confusing book. Here are friendly people who give you a key to it and present lots of crisp clear black and white answers. The thrill of having it all tidily and simply laid out with no mystery left is wonderful, and it is with unconscious ease that people slide over the questions that threaten the simple structure.

It takes a LOT of grace and a LOT of courage and persistence to avoid this pitfall. That's my take anyway.

[Petronski]

“Typical RC”

How nice.

[Manfred the Wonder Dawg]

You think that prayer is “dripping with poison”? It certainly appears you have a condescending attitude for people who think certain RCC dogma is wrong. That attitude speaks volumes.

[Judith Anne]

Very nice site. And that Peck book is excellent, read it many years ago and several times since.

Thanks.

[Petronski]

The condescension is coming AT Catholics, not FROM them.

[Mad Dawg]

Amen.

In the haste to assert a monochromatic Gospel, they end up preaching that God is less loving than humans are, and less respectful of the mother of His Son than the average drugged hoodlum scattering bastards throughout the neighborhood ios of the poor girls he impregnates.

It is remarkable to me that among the proponents of the "Mary as rent-a-womb" crowd there are so many women. I have watched the wonderful relationship between my wife and our daughter and can extrapolate from the way my daughter calls forth wisdom and love from her mother what Jesus did for Mary throughout their earthly time together.

No wonder the welcoming of the surrogate mother, of conception in a test-tube with the regrettable but what do you want us to do "disposal" of the left over fetuses.

Here is where what you are calling "hypocrisy" begins to open its unwitting (IMHO) blossom. Of course many of our Protestant brothers and sisters utterly condemn this contempt for parenthood. But while they throw it out the front door, their theology pulls it in the back door: Mary was just a kind of a vat on legs. Why not hire a rent-a-womb? After all, that's what God did.

[Judith Anne]

Ping to myself.

Whoopee!

[Manfred the Wonder Dawg]

So good of you (as do so many RCs) of speaking for the entire collective, as if the world-wide RCC was monolithic. How’s that working for ya?

[ArrogantBustard]

Whatever happened to not making it personal, and not mind reading, and not attributing motives to others?

Hmmm?

I've been rebuked by RM for far less than our canine friend is coming up with.

[OpusatFR]

“...”Mary as rent-a-womb” crowd there are so many women...”

We were discussing this this morning. There certainly is a self-referential aspect to women’s (and men’s) attitude toward Mary.

BTW, speaking of Dr. Peck, do you remember a psychiatrist named Bloom? I think he died a few years ago, a relatively young man, about 50 years old.

He wrote on culture and neurosis. One book, the last was on toxic interpersonal relationships. Brilliant man, very clear and erudite. Deeply religious and I cannot remember his name.

[OpusatFR]

“So good of you (as do so many RCs) of speaking for the entire collective..”

We ARE the Body of Christ.

[Petronski]

I love the part where I'm indicted for speaking for an entire group, like a typical Catholic.

Hypocrisy should be painful, but obviously it is not.

[Mad Dawg]

If the title comes to you, let me know, okay? I've been doing other stuff and a little pshrinkology would be a welcome change.

Gotta go, maybe won't be back for 24 hours, maybe just a few hours.

[ArrogantBustard]

That phrase "typical Catholic" reminds me of something I recently heard in the Presidential campaign.

I think it was from Barak Hussein Obama.