Posted on 01/27/2008 7:56:14 PM PST by Manfred the Wonder Dawg
***Are you further saying that there is no sin, no atrocity, no crime so heinous, no diabolical act, that will prevent you, the elect, from entering the Kingdom of Heaven?***
Only the grieving of the Holy Spirit. Otherwise, no, nothing will separate me from God.
***Forgive me for my incredulousness, but are you saying that the only penalty that the Reformed suffer for their sins is the moral equivalent of a hangover?***
Why do you try to twist everything I say? I gave you an example of what can happen if you drink too much wine, which, I do believe would be a sin, and the consequences you would immediately suffer. Don’t read any more into it than that.
Yes, exactly. Outstanding post, Dr. E.! Holy Spirit is real, and He does indwell us, and He does give us gifts He does not give to those who are not His children.
******Are you further saying that there is no sin, no atrocity, no crime so heinous, no diabolical act, that will prevent you, the elect, from entering the Kingdom of Heaven?***
Only the grieving of the Holy Spirit. Otherwise, no, nothing will separate me from God.***
Please be plain. Can you, the elect, possibly commit an act that will prevent you from entering the Kingdom of Heaven? Yes or no. An example might be profitable.
***Why do you try to twist everything I say? I gave you an example of what can happen if you drink too much wine, which, I do believe would be a sin, and the consequences you would immediately suffer.***
I am not attempting to twist anything. Does every sin have its own consequence; do you have some more examples beyonds the drinking of too much win?
Also, are there spiritual consequences or only temporal ones?
God only knows.
How about you guys? Is it really true that if you are caught in a lie and you don’t have time to do a hundred Hail Marys before you die, you won’t go to heaven? Or do you have to wait in Pergatory for a few hundred year until one of your future relative buys an indulgence to get you out?
(See? I can distort things, also)
***Please be plain. Can you, the elect, possibly commit an act that will prevent you from entering the Kingdom of Heaven? Yes or no. An example might be profitable.***
How much more plain do you want than directly from scripture? Only the grieving of the Holy Spirit. Otherwise, no, nothing will separate me from God. Best example I can give.
***He does give us gifts He does not give to those who are not His children***
So who are they that He has created that are not His children? His dogs? His cats? His hamsters? His rotifers? His algae?
Will God KILL you if you drink too much wine and don’t repent? How loving is THAT God?
Many are his creation who are not his children.
Could you please be plainer?
What in your estimation is the grieving of the Holy Spirit and how could it come about that, for example IT, or me, could be prevented from entering the Kingdom of Heaven.
How could this come to pass?
***How about you guys? Is it really true that if you are caught in a lie and you don’t have time to do a hundred Hail Marys before you die, you won’t go to heaven? Or do you have to wait in Pergatory for a few hundred year until one of your future relative buys an indulgence to get you out?***
If we sin without repenting, then we are indeed headed to hell. That is Christianity from the beginning; right from the Gospels. Right from the Apostles and right from the Church. Repent and believe.
We have no frogmarching.
Come on now, Irish.
You are sidestepping the question. Can you, the elect, possibly not go to heaven under any circumstances? And what are those circumstances?
Luke 12:10 And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but the one who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.
I can’t get any plainer than that. Don’t grieve the Holy Spirit. Don’t blaspheme the Holy Spirit. Don’t deny the Holy Spirit.
All other sins are forgiven. Completely and forever.
I try to stay as repented up and confessed up as possible.
And, like David, pray for my secret forgotten & unknown whatevers.
At some point—all points, The Blood of Jesus has to avail for all our sins, or it doesn’t.
I think the key issue is loving God in our heart attitudes.
I believe God is looking for Biblical excuses to save people, not Biblical excuses to damn people.
I really feel sorry for you, then. You never know if you are truly saved. You never know the peace of God, because you might sin and loose it all. How sad for you.
Blessed assurance, Jesus is mine,
Oh, what a foretaste of glory devine.
Nicely said.
So what you are saying is that you, as a Reformed believer, could rape 1000 women, kill 1000 men, steal millions of dollars, drop atomic weapons, infect millions of people with AIDS, put thousands of people in jail on false charges, and violate every single temporal and moral law that you know of and you would still go to heaven?
If we are to be Judged, then no assured outcome can there be.
Could, yes. Will? No, because God wouldn’t allow me to do it. His Holy Spirit, which resides in me, will not allow such a thing. I wouldn’t even want to try. I couldn’t contemplate me even wanting to. But, if all my sins are covered by the blood of Jesus, then ALL my sins are covered by the blood of Jesus. Every single one of them. Those I did, those I do now, and those I will do in the future.
I know you do not understand, and I understand why you do not understand. I will pray for your understanding about this. And, once you do understand... praise God!
If we are to be forgiven, then no judgement will harm us.
***Could, yes. Will? No, because God wouldn’t allow me to do it. His Holy Spirit, which resides in me, will not allow such a thing. ***
Now do you understand why we regard the Reformed doctrine with such horror? Because the Reformed regard heinous acts as merely trivial things that the Holy Spirit wouldn’t permit the individual to do if it were truly heinous. And even if they perform them, it still does not stop the ride to Heaven.
This is the Gnosticism that we are attempting to warn you guys about. Jesus dying on the Cross does not give you permission to sin.
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