Posted on 01/27/2008 7:56:14 PM PST by Manfred the Wonder Dawg
Something "like" what you describe happens every day in this country. However, I don't notice that too many of them hang around until the police arrive. They know full well that what they did will land them in jail, so they bolt. They can lie to themselves all they want about justification, but they also know that our laws stand against them. Therefore, I don't really see a comparison to our presuppositions about faith. I don't think either of us would say that "deep down" we really know we are wrong.
If you assume the Bible is inerrant word of God, than the Bible doesn't have to prove itself, and anyone who questions it is automatically wrong, and blasphemous, and that just may be sufficient 'justification' to be deprived of life.
There's nothing wrong with questioning the Bible. That's exactly what Paul told the Bereans to do, since Paul's teachings became part of the Bible. The Bible can certainly handle any objections raised. (Look at how Jesus handled Thomas' objections. Jesus didn't scold him for having doubts, Jesus just proved it.) The trick is whether the objector will accept a reasonable answer or not. If an objector has already made up his mind, then no reasonable argument will do any good. From there it is all in God's hands.
And, for this [the 23 y.o. journalist] is going to die? All this on presumption of those in power that the Koran is "holy" and "God-breathed" and that anyone questioning it is as good as dead—because to fundamentalist minds questioning the official truth is as good as mocking it?
So we see here a HUGE difference in the Muslim approach and the Reformed approach. Presumably, the Koran would not survive a test of reason, so they need it to be followed without question (to the point of death, as you describe). Our view is that the Bible is ready, willing, able, and even eager to take on all comers. The Bible is the greatest friend of reason. The Koran does not appear to be, so their leaders have to lead based on fear.
***“...understanding little except destruction, with no regard as to consequences.”
Sadly, that bears repeating.***
That is the hand that we are dealt. We cannot allow the Visigoths to sack Rome again. We cannot allow the Saracens to sack Turkey again. If we do not stand against it, who will?
***Intriguing. Hypothetically, what happens to the Reformed if they resist this desire?***
Sometimes, like Jonah, they do resist. Didn’t work for Jonah, won’t work for us, either.
***So therefore, there would be no reason to avoid committing future sins, since they are already forgiven.***
Theoretically, yes. Practically, no. Once you are forgiven, there is a strong desire to do what God wants. Avoiding sin is one of those. We still sin. but we do now have the desire to avoid it, because it doesn’t really make us happy, Obeying God does.
You’re welcome, Kosta. It’s an excellent study. I recommend it highly.
I think it does make a different to ‘the reformed.’ At least to the born again reformed who love Jesus and want to live for Him. I’m not talking about liberal churches, although many of them do good works as well. I can’t really speak for anyone else but bad works will be judged in the end, as will our good works. Only what’s done for HIM will last.
I, too, am appalled at the way republican politics has gone. They’ve become democrat lite, and I’m convinced McCain is being shoved down our throats because they think he’s got integrity and can beat Hill or Obama. I’m not sure if there’s a deeper motive in all this, but the media is sure in on it. Sigh.
That should be an interesting answer.
LOL.
Thank you. Let's pray for victory while were at it. :)
But we need to remember how our establishment betrayed Pat Tillman's patritoism and used his untimely and unjust death at the hands of his own troops as a propaganda tool.
What a great example to take us back to our theological debates. ;0
Why do you think the initial reports about how he died were wrong? I think it is symptomatic of any large centralized hierarchy. Protecting the reputation of the organization becomes more important than the truth. The few individuals who do seek to proclaim the truth are quickly marginalized in order to protect the organization and the bureaucracy, which the organization "can't live without".
I think this perfectly describes how churches that became a part of the state changed. Once that happened the desire to proclaim the truth became secondary to control of the laity. Any who dared to speak up, or sought to reform the church, when they found error were quickly marginalized.
Your choices are sadly limited. That's all you know?
Dear Kosta . . . I think you can provide a better answer than that.
You are plenty forthright about a lot of things. Why so coy about this question?
One that doesn't put greed ahead of the nation. At this moment, we have 13 million illegal aliens in this country because American businesses are willing to hire them as cheap labor, and the government (servants of the poeple!) look the other way. How patriotic is that?
Whatever makes you happy, BD.
I’m afraid our friend Kosta has tossed up a cannard with the whole Muslim issue.
The irony is, of course, that Islam is a works based religon.
Thus when contemplating the cause for religous despotism would the final cause be a belief in direct revelation or would it be a belief that certain actions are meant to serve a purposeful goal.
Clearly the final causation for religous despotism lies in a belief that certain actions (works) will lead to a purposeful end (ie appease the Diety to acheive reward) while belief in direct revelation can only serve as a formal cause.
We saw the same phenomenon with the Romanist inquistion.
A century and a half ago, American capitalism used child labor. Today we recognize it as inhumane and wrong, and we passed laws prohibiting such abomination. Our economic system has become internationalized. Today's capitalism is favoring illegal aliens.
They don't come with immunization records and disease history. They don't even exist on paper! They could be criminals and terrorists among them. Why do American businesses hire such people except out of greed for greater profit?
And why are local, state and federal ogvernments doing absolutely nothing to cut off the supply of jobs ofr these people when laws intended to deal with this situation are already on the books, but no one is enforcing them!?
Instead of cutting off the supply, we want to hire more border patrol agents, and offer those already in the country illegally amnesty. That's patriotic?
Are you saying that attracting illegal aliens is in the interest of this nation while we are losing sons and daughters in Iraq? What good is it to fight them "over there" so we don't have to fight them "over here" if "over here" we could already have them inside the country illegally and our politicians a la McCain are willing to offer them amnesty?
How responsible is that and what are our priorities?
Or simply "doing God's will," which is found in fundametalist Christainity as much as in Islam. There is no greater reward than "knowing" to be the the elect destined to "do the job" as God wishes.
We saw the same phenomenon with the Romanist inquistion
Oh, yeh? How's that?
Why would we, of all nations, stoop down to such level? How can we convince the world we stand for truth and justice if we keep repeating such mistakes?
In 1999, an American jet attacked an unarmed Serbian civilian train on a bridge. NATO briefed reporters about this, and showed footage taken from the missile approaching the train. based on the tape, it looked like the train appeared out of nowhere and the pilot didn't have time to divert the missile (since the target was the bridge, not the train). It all looked legit. Until it leaked out that the footage was played at three times the normal speed.
It turns out the pilot not only saw the train approaching the bridge but waited until the train was on the bridge and then attacked a civilian object (a war crime). After hitting it once, he turned around and hit one more time (double war crime).
Of course, our media did not show the aftermath (because it was too "disturbing"). There were torsos and body parts of innocent passengers scattered all over the ground and in the trees. Even if we believed out cause was just, what that pilot did was not.
The reason the briefing was fixed is because we knew we committed a criminal act and we tried to cover it up by playing the tape at three times the speed. What does that say about credibility? Are we on such thin moral ice that we have to resort to the type of disinformation our worst enemies practiced?
Protecting the reputation of the organization becomes more important than the truth.
Self-protection is "normal." Organizations are 'organisms" of sorts and tend to protect themselves. But that is true of Apostolic Churches and Protestant communities alike. You will find corruption everywhere.
That would be National Socialism.
To then take the offense back, or up, as our own right and duty to have a chip on our shoulder and huffily rant and rave about how horribly we've been wounded . . . when Christ bore it all . . . is AT LEAST More than a little askew of God's priorities for us VIRTUALLY all the time.
Yes, that's right. I was only referring to the Biblical exhortations that all of us be gentle and loving in our own exhortations to others. But God never promised us a rose garden, so we all should be able to roll with the punches.
Yeh we all need to learn more about the Roman Catholic Croatian Ustashi and their operations there in the Balkans under the Nazis and the hundreds of thousands of Serbs that they tortured and slaughtered. Oh but that was done by Catholic Croatians and we have to find fault with those western Protestants, right??? Get over yourself ----
You’re still AVOIDING answering the question, Kosta.
IF your position is worth having . . .
It’s worth being forthright about enough to answer the question.
What do you advocate as a form of government/society?
There aren’t an infinite number of choices, Kosta.
Of course the illegals problem is a serious problem deliberately concocted and perpetuated toward specific goals. BUT ALL THAT IS BESIDE THE POINT OF THE QUESTION. And I suspect that you know that.
What do you advocate as a form of government/society?
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