Posted on 11/14/2007 8:28:07 AM PST by fortcollins
Yes as do LDS members. You say "I believe JW is a Christian religion as they believe in Jesus Christ." But the JW's do not believe Jesus is God.
They changed the wording in The Gospel of John 1:1 from "...and the Word was God" to "...and the Word was a god." (New World Translation)
Believing in Jesus Christ has different meanings to different religions. Jesus said many will come in My Name.
I would like to see this as well. Most often, the Savior's counsel to the forgiven was to "go thy way, and sin no more..."
Oh really? Then please explain why we teach thus:
Mosiah 16:
10 Even this mortal shall put on immortality, and this corruption shall put on incorruption, and shall be brought to stand before the bar of God, to be judged of him according to their works whether they be good or whether they be evil—
11 If they be good, to the resurrection of endless life and happiness; and if they be evil, to the resurrection of endless damnation, being delivered up to the devil, who hath subjected them, which is damnation—
12 Having gone according to their own carnal wills and desires; having never called upon the Lord while the arms of mercy were extended towards them; for the arms of mercy were extended towards them, and they would not; they being warned of their iniquities and yet they would not depart from them; and they were commanded to repent and yet they would not repent.
13 And now, ought ye not to tremble and repent of your sins, and remember that only in and through Christ ye can be saved?
Or this:
3 Nephi 26:
4 And even unto the great and last day, when all people, and all kindreds, and all nations and tongues shall stand before God, to be judged of their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil—
5 If they be good, to the resurrection of everlasting life; and if they be evil, to the resurrection of damnation; being on a parallel, the one on the one hand and the other on the other hand, according to the mercy, and the justice, and the holiness which is in Christ, who was before the world began.
So either you are not aware of our teachings and misspoke, or intentionally misled with that post. I would like to think it is the former...
Interesting article, thanks.
Have you noticed how Mormonism Apologists like to quote the BofM when it fits what they want to argue for, but seem to fall dumb and deaf when the topic of polygamy instituted by their false prophet in contradiction to the BofM? Ya gotta hand it to Satan, including vast sections of the Bible in the BofM made it a fertile seed bag for sowing deception by misusing the Bible. The apologists are so adepot at it, too!
"For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book."
A brief review of some historical facts should clear up this issue. The Bible is a collection of sacred writings that were compiled into book format centuries after the death of the original writers. When the Apostle John wrote these verses, the Bible as we know it today had not been compiled yet. Therefore, his words could not possibly be applied to the entire collection of writings today known as the Bible. John was referring specifically to the Book of Revelation.
Additionally, even though Revelation is traditionally placed last in the Bible, most Biblical scholars do not believe that it was the last book to be written among the compiled records contained in the Bible. If your reasoning is true, then those Books would also have to be removed from the Bible and discarded as false.
Also, please note the very similar wording by Moses found in Deuteronomy 4:2:
"Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish [ought] from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you."
If your interpretation of the Revelation verses were correct, then they would have to be applied here as well. In which case, the Old Testament after Deuteronomy and the entire New Testament would have to be discarded as false.
Finally, I should say that the words of both Moses and John are true. Man should not take it upon himself to add to or diminish the word of God.
"For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Ghost." (2 Peter 1:21)
God has a plan for us and chooses men called Prophets to teach us his plan. Prophets teach the word of God as they are moved by the Holy Ghost. It is the same today as it was 2000 years ago, for God is the same yesterday, and today, and forever. (Hebrews 13:8)
"For he is the same yesterday, today, and forever; and the way is prepared for all men from the foundation of the world, if it so be that they repent and come unto him". 1 Nephi 10:18
Huh?
I never stopped at the "headline", just posted a response to the silliness of it
I have posed several important questions on this thread that were not answered. Only the ones of little consequence and not very revealing of the beliefs of those that answered them. The questions and comments of depth were largely unanswered and uncommented upon.
Do a search on my posts on this thread and answer the questions and comment on my comments if you would like to have a reasoned discussion. I would like to have the answers.
Thanks for the offer.
Dumb and deaf? Surely you jest. I've responded to Elsie's posting of Jacob 2 so many times my fingers are numb.
Let me share it one more time, apparently you missed it the dozens of times it has come up. Read verse 30, I highlighted, bolded, italicized, and underlined it so you don't miss it this time.
Jacob 2:
23 But the word of God burdens me because of your grosser crimes. For behold, thus saith the Lord: This people begin to wax in iniquity; they understand not the scriptures, for they seek to excuse themselves in committing whoredoms, because of the things which were written concerning David, and Solomon his son.
24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.
25 Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph.
26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.
27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be bone wife; and concubines he shall have none;
28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.
29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.
30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.
31 For behold, I, the Lord, have seen the sorrow, and heard the mourning of the daughters of my people in the land of Jerusalem, yea, and in all the lands of my people, because of the wickedness and abominations of their husbands.
32 And I will not suffer, saith the Lord of Hosts, that the cries of the fair daughters of this people, which I have led out of the land of Jerusalem, shall come up unto me against the men of my people, saith the Lord of Hosts.
33 For they shall not lead away captive the daughters of my people because of their tenderness, save I shall visit them with a sore curse, even unto destruction; for they shall not commit awhoredoms, like unto them of old, saith the Lord of Hosts.
34 And now behold, my brethren, ye know that these commandments were given to our father, Lehi; wherefore, ye have known them before; and ye have come unto great condemnation; for ye have done these things which ye ought not to have done.
35 Behold, ye have done greater iniquities than the Lamanites, our brethren. Ye have broken the hearts of your tender wives, and lost the confidence of your children, because of your bad examples before them; and the sobbings of their hearts ascend up to God against you. And because of the strictness of the word of God, which cometh down against you, many hearts died, pierced with deep wounds.
It was your question and I provided an answer. Many of the things you asked have been hashed out ad nasium, and an easy search will provide much conversation, to the point of being ridiculously repetitive. This question by you however is not addressed as much, so I chose to answer it. If you choose not to accept answers to your question simple because someone answered it, then it speaks to the intent of your questions and there seems to be no point in continuing dialog. Am I wrong?
REVELATION 12: 1-17
The woman the Church, the child [the kingdom of God], the rod of iron [the word of God], the dragon [Satan], and Michael are explained. The war in heaven is continued on the earth. (compare Revelation 12: 1-17; Doctrine and Covenants 77)
1 And there appeared a great sign in heaven, in the likeness of things on the earth; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars.
2 And the woman being with child, cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3 And she brought for a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron; and her child was caught up unto God and his throne.
4 And there appeared another sign in heaven; and behold, a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman which was delivered, ready to devour her child after it was born.
5 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she had a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore years.
6 And there was war in heaven; Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought against Michael;
7 And the dragon prevailed not against Michael, neither the child, nor the woman which was the church of God, who had been delivered of her pains, and brought forth the kingdom of our God and his Christ.
8 Neither was there place found in heaven for the great dragon, who was cast out; that old serpent called the devil, and also called Satan, which deceiveth the whole world; he was cast out into earth; and his angels were cast out with him.
9 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ;
10 For the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 For they have overcome him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; for they loved not their own lives, but kept the testimony even unto death. Therefore, rejoice O heavens, and ye that dwell in them.
12 And after these things I heard another voice saying, Woe to the inhabiters of the earth, yea, and they who dwell upon the islands of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
13 For when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14 Therefore, to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might flee into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15 And the serpent casteth out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helpeth the woman, and the earth openeth her mouth, and swalloweth up the flood which the dragon casteth out of his mouth.
17 Therefore, the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Still I believe we can agree that God and the Bible admonish people not to add anything as scripture that is not from God. And to beware of false prophets.
Yes to the history lesson, but the scriptures were there. Just not compiled yet.
IIRC, Revelation was written when John was about 90 and residing on the island of Patmos.
That should put it near the back of the New Testament.
As far as the chronology of the Biblical Books, I don't think it is clear with all of them what order they were written.
I have seen a Bible that attempted to compile all of the scriptures in the order in which they were written. I don't remember the order though. It's not that important anyway.
"Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish [ought] from it..."
I think that scripture is self explanatory. And does not denote a time-line. Just a necessary admonition.
Finally, I should say that the words of both Moses and John are true. Man should not take it upon himself to add to or diminish the word of God.
Very true and my point exactly. Well almost exactly.
Prophets teach the word of God as they are moved by the Holy Ghost.
Yep
It is the same today as it was 2000 years ago
Not exactly. Things changed a bit since Jesus arrived. Still there are "prophets" that teach the word of God through the Holy Spirit.
Thanks for chiming in. When I posted my post just before this one, I noticed the post of yours that I am replying to now.
Again, you think that ol Joe Smith started this strange religion 2o0 years ago. The other side of that argument is that Joseph was God's prophet who restored all things, and brought about the dispensation of the fullness of times. Every thing, promise, blessing, key of authority, principle and covenant that God has done for the children of men from Adam on is once again on the earth. He speaks to His servants once again in preparation for His second Coming. The fact that this tile... Freemasonry derived from Mormonism bothers you is a bit humorous, but the premise of course is that the Gospel of Jehovah, or Jesus Christ predates the masonic remnants of the Temple of Solomon.
The LDS position is just that, that God is God over the whole earth, and has spoken to His prophets and his people where he has led them, not just to the geographical location of Jerusalem.
No, I haven't read all of that and actually won't. I see your point though and well taken.
Just who is this seed?
No it was not my question. It was posted by someone else.
WAS FREEMASONRY DERIVED FROM MORMONISM?My comment to that post was that it was silly. Because Freemasonry started quite a while before Mormonism. In fact, Joseph Smith was a Mason before starting his religion.
This question by you however is not addressed as much, so I chose to answer it.
Sorry I didn't see your answer. I don't see how it can be answered except by treating it as absurd because of what I stated above. And again it wasn't my question. The other post to me by you, yes I saw that. Thanks.
Many of the things you asked have been hashed out ad nasium, and an easy search will provide much conversation, to the point of being ridiculously repetitive.
Sorry, I have read many LDS threads and have not seen some of my questions answered. Such as the questions asked Here and This slight correction and This Question wasn't answered either.
If you choose not to accept answers to your question simple because someone answered it,
Now that's just silly! ( a little humor there) That was not my intention nor what I did
... then it speaks to the intent of your questions and there seems to be no point in continuing dialog. Am I wrong?
Well, yes you are. I think there has been a misunderstanding here.
And now I think I see what it was. You posted to me where I called the "headline" silly and I thought that was the question you were talking about.
As you know by now, I responded to your answer
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