Answering the "Replacement Theology" Critics (Part 1)

American Vision ^ | 10/7/2005 | Gary DeMar

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so much for your encouragements and for your correction! Indeed, the wrath of God precedes the Sabbath.

[Quix]

Where in the scripture does it ever say that the “Kingdom of God will advance into and overtake the kingdoms of this world.... as opposed to Christ personally after He physically comes back”

= = =

ABSOLUTELY.

And 95% of the time, when such deal-breaker Scriptural truths are posted . . .

they are not remotely adequately dealt with.

Usually, there’s not even an attempt because there CANNOT BE one, logically.

Doesn’t seem to give the other side pause. They just come back with more outrageous rubber Bible silliness as though it were Gospel.

Still shocking.

[Quix]

It’s such a blessing, relief, encouragement, help

when you articulate my own convictions better than I do

or sometimes better than I manage to slow down and do.

Thx.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

“but the Kingdom of God will advance into and overtake the kingdoms of this world. Christ in us, I believe, will accomplish this- as opposed to Christ personally after He physically comes back.”

You're quoting ovrtaxt, not me.

But I agree with it. Christianity will not fail. The earth and everything therein belong to the Lord.

"And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen." -- Matthew 28:18-20

I don't think Christ is commanding an exercise in futility.

I enjoy learning by looking at the results of a particular belief. A belief in dispensational dual tracks to salvation ultimately preaches a real futility of the Gospel. A belief that the preaching of God's word to all men results in a better world under Christ affirms the Gospel and the power of the Holy Spirit.

Believing that thereby helps to make it occur, exactly as God wills. Disbelieving that works against it.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

I believe folks are needlessly at risk of hell because of that perspective

Now how is that possible? How am I at risk of being damned by believing all men today should be kneeling to Christ alone, and that eventually, as the word of God is preached to all men and as the effects of the Holy Spirit are felt throughout the world, this earth will become more Christian and not less?

How am I "at risk of hell because of that perspective?"

[wmfights]

Point 3: The 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth is God’s Sabbath.

I haven't heard this before. I wonder though, if it's the Sabbath why doesn't the new Jerusalem descend until after the 1,000 yr reign?

FK I pinged you because I thought you might find this thread interesting.

[wmfights]

Appreciate your spirit and exhortation, Bro. Never hesitate, with me, please.

Likewise my FRiend.

I find this area of discussion really interesting.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

AG -- "Point 3: The 1,000 year reign of Christ on earth is God's Sabbath."

How can "Christ on earth" be a time of God's resting? It seems to me to be just the opposite. Christ on earth, the Holy Spirit moving in our lives and hearts and families, can only invigorate the planet.

(I'm web-tv disadvantaged, Alamo-girl, so I'm having a difficult time accessing your entire post. I'll change computers and read it.)

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so very much for your encouragements, dear brother in Christ!

sometimes better than I manage to slow down and do.

I suspect that your reaction to those who do not see what you do in current events vis-à-vis Scripture - is roughly the equivalent of one seeing people standing in the path of an oncoming train.

Further, I suspect one in such a position would not take the time to explain the physics of what would happen to their bodies if the train arrived at a certain speed, etc. Nor, I suspect, would such a person think about the words he was using - whether those standing on the hypothetical train tracks would be deeply offended. The idea, after all, would be to get them to move out of the way - especially difficult if they can't see what he does, i.e. the oncoming train.

But I am never troubled by such things. After all, this oncoming train has the glorious result of God's will being done, finally ending the rebellion against His will, ushering in the new heaven and new earth in which all of us who are His (whether on or off the tracks) will live with Him forever more.

Maranatha, Jesus!!!

[Alamo-Girl]

I haven't heard this before. I wonder though, if it's the Sabbath why doesn't the new Jerusalem descend until after the 1,000 yr reign?

For the same reason Christ did not heal everyone, did not raise all the dead, did not establish the new heaven and earth when He was enfleshed. Everything is unfolding according to God's will, i.e. He is raising a family.

The New Jerusalem is the centerpiece of the new heaven and new earth (Revelation 21,22) - the environ for the family. The new heaven and earth is not created until after Satan is judged, the second death, the Great White Throne Judgment - at the end of the Sabbath.

[Alamo-Girl]

It is the Sabbath God has appointed in which Adamic men (the 7000 year calendar) will rest from their works (Hebrews 4:3-7).

I look forward to your further comments!

[Quix]

Glad you do.

Thx.

[1000 silverlings]

re Sabbath rest

Hebrews speaks of a rest to come but from what I understand, once you are in Christ (peace beyond understanding) even on this earth and in His kingdom now, we have a sabbath rest, for "we dwell with Him in heavenly places". I suppose many deny this as well.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

those who do not see what you do in current events vis-à-vis Scripture - is roughly the equivalent of one seeing people standing in the path of an oncoming train.

But how am I standing in front of an oncoming train? I can understand if one says an unbeliever is standing in front of a train, but what train is going to run me over? All the evils of this world? Hardly. I am protected by the Holy Spirit. Like Christ, I may be bruised, but I cannot be broken.

I linked to an old thread yesterday and I cannot fault it...

THE TRIUMPH OF THE CHURCH

"...The significance of the Old Testament for understanding the earthly triumph of the church is based on the New Testament teaching that the church is the new Israel, or "the Israel of God" ( Gal. 6:16 ). The Apostle Paul affirms that believers in Jesus Christ are the true seed of Abraham ( Gal. 3:16-17, 26-29 ), that elect Jews and Gentiles are one body in Christ ( Eph. 2:11-3:7 ), that the Old Testament covenantal distinctions between them have been removed in the church ( Eph. 2:11-3:7 ), and that the New Testament church is the heir of the promises given to Israel ( Eph. 2:12, 19-22 3:7 ). Hence, the new covenant promises given to Israel are fulfilled in the church (cf. Jer. 31:31-34 with Mt. 26:18; 2 Cor. 3:6; Heb. 8:7-13; 10:12-18 ). Jesus Christ himself declared that the kingdom of God would be taken from Israel and given to the church ( Mt. 8:10-12; 21:19 , 43 ; Lk. 20:9-16 ). Furthermore, as the new Israel of God, the church is designated by the same terminology that was used of Israel in the Old Testament (cf. 1 Pet. 2:9; Gal. 3:29 ).

Let's look at Ephesians 2...

"That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit." -- Eph. 2:12-22

God hasn't changed His elect people. His family has been the exact same one since the foundation of the world. In the OT His family waited for Christ by grace through faith; in the NT, a "better Testament," Christ has appeared and claimed what is His -- the world and everything therein which He will judge in perfect truth at the end of time.

After all, this oncoming train has the glorious result of God's will being done, finally ending the rebellion against His will, ushering in the new heaven and new earth in which all of us who are His (whether on or off the tracks) will live with Him forever more.

Now I can happily board that train (which left the station at Christ's resurrection) because I believe I see passengers doing the Lord's work, praising His name and tossing Bibles from that train to huge crowds of people along the way too numerous to number who are hungering for the word of God and for the peace and confidence they find inside that will most definitely produce good fruit on this earth.

"Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.

Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." -- Matthew 5:14-17

[Quix]

Dr. E . . . !

In THAT sense, how can GOD, ALMIGHTY GOD OF THE ANGEL ARMIES

EVER

BE CONSIDERED OR EVEN IMAGINED

TO REST?

Yet, HE SAYS, on the 7th day, HE RESTED. Whatever that means.

Still holding all the subatomic particles in proper everything . ..

HE rested.

Guess it’s that thing Angel-Gal talks about our linear logic not fitting . . . the middle what’s-it.

I think in terms of THE MILLENIUM . . .

IT IS TO BE A SABBATH PRIMARILY FOR MAN AND FOR THE EARTH

Perhaps for Creation.

DR. E. . . .

You have yet to answer one question I’ll now ask again publically . . .

AT what point ASSUMING my construction on Biblical prophecies . . .

at what point in prophetic fulfillment do you decide yours need adjusted?

[I’d also be interested in any of the other . . . Preterists responding, if they are brave enough]

1. The world ruler overtly declaring himself?
2. The Mark of The Beast required for every financial transaction?
3. The 3rd Temple rebuilt?

4. The world ruler consolidating his power overtly—in formal charge of all countries?
5. The North American Union?
6. The Gospel being published to every language group?

7. The rise of the False Prophet with dramatic miracles accompanying?
8. The TWO WITNESSES calling fire down from Heaven routinely?
9. The TWO WITNESSES bodies lying in Jerusalem for 3 days in view of the world?

10. The image being brought to ‘life’ speaking etc. ?
11. The Resurrected Anti-Christ after his mortal wound?
12. WHAT?

###########

Now what was my other question . . . I forget.

[Alamo-Girl]

Indeed, our rest with Christ in God is beyond compare. (Col 3:3) We do not even need be concerned about the wrath of God.

Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. - Romans 5:9

But God's promises are not either/or. He promised the Sabbath rest for Adamic men - which the Jews have long understood to be earthy land, national, living in peace with their neighbors and ruled by the heir of David.

That promise will also be kept. God's gifts and callings are without repentance (Romans 11)

Praise God!!!

[Quix]

Could not have said it better myself.

THANKS TONS. You put my heart on display with graciousness and tenderness. Deeply touched and indebted.

Glad at least SOMEONE understands! LOL.

Especially you.

Actually, am thankful that Joya DarthVader, MarySecretary and some others more silent understand as well.

And, sigh, some of us are still working through that attachment disorder set of problems that conflict so potently with

BE ANXIOUS FOR NOTHING

TRUST,
TRUST,
TRUST,
TRUST!

FATHER GOD

IS

TRUSTWORTHY.

PTL.

THX ENORMOUSLY.

[Quix]

i THINK that’s the best explanation I’ve come across yet:

For the same reason Christ did not heal everyone, did not raise all the dead, did not establish the new heaven and earth when He was enfleshed. Everything is unfolding according to God’s will, i.e. He is raising a family.

The New Jerusalem is the centerpiece of the new heaven and new earth (Revelation 21,22) - the environ for the family. The new heaven and earth is not created until after Satan is judged, the second death, the Great White Throne Judgment - at the end of the Sabbath.

[Quix]

No denial of that, at all.

Neither do we try and

stretch the rubber to fit every conceivable and inconceivable aspect that suits Replacementarian imaginations.

[Quix]

Yet again,

the truths of such Scriptures do not

negate, neuter, lay aside, etc.

1 microgram’s worth of END TIMES PROPHETIC TRUTHS AND REALITIES.

NOT IN THE SLIGHTEST.