Posted on 10/25/2007 9:24:05 AM PDT by NYer
Whatever awareness of this world the saints in heaven possess is exactly as God wants it to be. No more and no less. And that's not for us to know.
It's enough for us to know our loved ones are with Him and eternally happy, as we will be one day.
"That they may do evil with both hands earnestly, the prince asketh, and the judge asketh for a reward; and the great man, he uttereth his mischievous desire: so they wrap it up.The best of them is as a brier: the most upright is sharper than a thorn hedge: the day of thy watchmen and thy visitation cometh; now shall be their perplexity.
Trust ye not in a friend, put ye not confidence in a guide: keep the doors of thy mouth from her that lieth in thy bosom.
For the son dishonoureth the father, the daughter riseth up against her mother, the daughter in law against her mother in law; a man's enemies are the men of his own house.
Therefore I will look unto the LORD; I will wait for the God of my salvation: my God will hear me.
Rejoice not against me, O mine enemy: when I fall, I shall arise; when I sit in darkness, the LORD shall be a light unto me.
I will bear the indignation of the LORD, because I have sinned against him, until he plead my cause, and execute judgment for me: he will bring me forth to the light, and I shall behold his righteousness.
Then she that is mine enemy shall see it, and shame shall cover her which said unto me, Where is the LORD thy God? mine eyes shall behold her: now shall she be trodden down as the mire of the streets.
In the day that thy walls are to be built, in that day shall the decree be far removed.
In that day also he shall come even to thee from Assyria, and from the fortified cities, and from the fortress even to the river, and from sea to sea, and from mountain to mountain.
Notwithstanding the land shall be desolate because of them that dwell therein, for the fruit of their doings.
Feed thy people with thy rod, the flock of thine heritage, which dwell solitarily in the wood, in the midst of Carmel: let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old.
According to the days of thy coming out of the land of Egypt will I shew unto him marvellous things.
The nations shall see and be confounded at all their might: they shall lay their hand upon their mouth, their ears shall be deaf.
They shall lick the dust like a serpent, they shall move out of their holes like worms of the earth: they shall be afraid of the LORD our God, and shall fear because of thee.
Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy.
He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea.
Thou wilt perform the truth to Jacob, and the mercy to Abraham, which thou hast sworn unto our fathers from the days of old." — Micah 7:3-20
"And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen." — 1 John 5:20-21
Amen !
lol. In case you didn't know, a "slipper slope" is much like a slippery slope, only the heel is higher.
Fitting Scriptures.
Thx.
BTW,
Avoid being overly weary in well doing.
Gnats are annoying . . . . but it’s not like they can fly off with you and dump you in Shrillery’s lap or anything equally horrid.
“Little children, keep yourselves from idols”.
I have often meditated on this Scriptural verse.
Dear Dr. E., I perceive that you offer this from 1John as a reminder of the “idol-worship” that is so often referred to as a Catholic practice by non-Catholics on this forum.
It occurs to me that if that were possibly your intention with this quote, that it’s perhaps more in line with the complaints of non-Catholics to refer to “graven images”.
When I think of the “idols” to whom St. John refers, I am more inclined to reflect on the everyday idols in our lives that cling to our consciousness and get in the way of our daily and hourly focus on the Lord. Of these idols, there are many, and they are often doing their insidious work quite unobserved by us.
I would like to just a handful:
*desire for personal affirmation from others
*desire to be noticed and/or praised
*desire to know everything and to let that fact be known
*desire to be the recipient of worldy pleasures
*the hidden pleasure of schadenfreude
*the habit of uninvited interference in the lives of others
*the focus on information and learning rather than wisdom
*the “here I am” as opposed to “there you are”
*the addiction to activity rather than silent repose
*the desire to escape pain rather than embrace the Cross
*television
*cyberspace and it’s companions: the keyboard and anonimity
I mention this mere handful and these are only a very few of the idols that we seldom perceive are capable of robbing us of closer union with God. There are many more such idols, depending on the culture and the times in which we live. Each age and each culture offers its own enticements to put idols in our lives.
As for “graven images”, I have been a Catholic for many years and I have never once worshiped a graven image.
I send my regards and am respectfully,
ROE
Luther, Calvin, and Other Early Protestants on the Perpetual Virginity of Mary
Luther, Calvin, and Other Early Protestants on the Perpetual Virginity of Mary
The Protestant Reformers on the Virgin Mary
Zwingli’s’ Mariology: On Mary “Full of Grace”
717 posted on 10/27/2007 10:38:05 AM MDT by Salvation
Her virginity up until Yah'shua was born was required, The need is solely as needed by man's pride and traditions. The whole concept opens the door to the Evil One who will use it to mislead the flock. YHvH's larger plan of salvation, where His People are blinded for a time,In YHvH's larger plan of salvation, is Miriam's perpetual virginity needed ?
shalom b'shem Yah'shua
in order to fulfill His Word, but after I don't see any need.
in order to bring His salvation the the gentile nations. NAsbU Romans 11:15 For if their ( His Chosen People ) rejection is the reconciliation of the world,
And their ultimate salvation after a period of blindness is guaranteed by YHvH's covenant :
what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?
NAsbU Romans 11:25 For I do not want you, brethren,
to be uninformed of this mystery--
so that you will not be wise in your own estimation--
that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until
the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;
26 and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written,
"THE DELIVERER WILL COME FROM ZION,
HE WILL REMOVE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB."
27 "THIS IS MY COVENANT WITH THEM, WHEN I TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS."
28 From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake,
but from the standpoint of God's choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers;
29 for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
INDEED.
AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!
VERY WELL PUT.
Thanks.
Sure, I knew that. ;-0
It is no coincidence that all of the Scriptures were written before the last Apostle died.
Mark 7:9 He said to them,"All too well you reject the commandment of God that you may keep your tradition".
It strikes me that almost all areas of contention with RC's and EO are beliefs and practices they have developed because of their "Tradition"(the proverbial slippery slope). The only two Scriptural based beliefs that we are in disagreement with, that come to mind, are the theory of Apostolic Succession and their misunderstanding of the LORD'S SUPPER.
LOL -- and a step ahead of the correctors.
LIKEWISE, DEAR HEART, LIKEWISE.
LUB
in order to bring His salvation to the gentile nations.
My girlfriend’s family is Catholic, from Brooklyn, and they pray to saints all the time, they constantly tell me all their prayers to various saints to help them in various ways.
My girlfriend, thank God, no longer believes in doing that...
Ed
Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God" -- Exodus 20:4-5"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
Only God knows the heart, yours and mine. I pray to Him alone for His mercy alone which, God willing, we both receive through Jesus Christ.
I hope your chores have been lighter lately.
Not if you worship Him in spirit and in truth. Not staying true to His revelation of Himself is where you would go astray.
“Get the difference?”
You have to read the Bible correctly. It is called Typology. Go look at all my posts. Mary is the New Ark of the New Covenent and since Sin couldn’t touch the Old Ark neither could Sin touch the New. Thus Mary had no sin.
nside the Ark of the Old Covenant - The stone tablets of the law — the word of God inscribed on stone
Inside Mary, Ark of the New Covenant - The body of Jesus Christ — the word of God in the flesh
Inside the Ark of the Old Covenant - The urn filled with manna from the wilderness — the miraculous bread come down from heaven
Inside Mary, Ark of the New Covenant - The womb containing Jesus, the bread of life come down from heaven (John 6:41)
Inside the Ark of the Old Covenant -The rod of Aaron that budded to prove and defend the true high priest
Inside Mary, Ark of the New Covenant -The actual and eternal High Priest Jesus
Words of Martin Luther
“It is a sweet and pious belief that the infusion of Mary’s soul was effected without original sin; so that in the very infusion of her soul she was also purified from original sin and adorned with God’s gifts, receiving a pure soul infused by God; thus from the first moment she began to live she was free from all sin”
Martin Luther, Founder of the Reform, Speaks on Mary
Martin Luther had the belief of Mary’s Immaculate Conception, Luther’s words follow:
It is a sweet and pious belief that the infusion of Mary’s soul was effected without original sin; so that in the very infusion of her soul she was also purified from original sin and adorned with God’s gifts, receiving a pure soul infused by God; thus from the first moment she began to live she was free from all sin” (Sermon: “On the Day of the Conception of the Mother of God,” 1527).
Sounds like ML believe she was without Sin from Conception.
She is full of grace, proclaimed to be entirely without sin- something exceedingly great. For God’s grace fills her with everything good and makes her devoid of all evil. (Personal {”Little”} Prayer Book, 1522).
[She is the] highest woman and the noblest gem in Christianity after Christ . . . She is nobility, wisdom, and holiness personified. We can never honor her enough. Still honor and praise must be given to her in such a way as to injure neither Christ nor the Scriptures. (Sermon, Christmas, 1531).
No woman is like you. You are more than Eve or Sarah, blessed above all nobility, wisdom, and sanctity. (Sermon, Feast of the Visitation, 1537).
One should honor Mary as she herself wished and as she expressed it in the Magnificat. She praised God for his deeds. How then can we praise her? The true honor of Mary is the honor of God, the praise of God’s grace . . . Mary is nothing for the sake of herself, but for the sake of Christ . . . Mary does not wish that we come to her, but through her to God. (Explanation of the Magnificat, 1521).
Luther gives the Blessed Virgin the exalted position of “Spiritual Mother” for Christians:
It is the consolation and the superabundant goodness of God, that man is able to exult in such a treasure. Mary is his true Mother .. (Sermon, Christmas, 1522)
Mary is the Mother of Jesus and the Mother of all of us even though it was Christ alone who reposed on her knees . . . If he is ours, we ought to be in his situation; there where he is, we ought also to be and all that he has ought to be ours, and his mother is also our mother. (Sermon, Christmas, 1529).
Sermon: “On the Day of the Conception of the Mother of God,” December [?] 1527; from Hartmann Grisar, S.J., Luther, authorised translation from the German by E.M. Lamond; edited by Luigi Cappadelta, London: Kegan Paul, Trench, Trubner, first edition, 1915, Vol. IV [of 6], p. 238; taken from the German Werke, Erlangen, 1826-1868, edited by J.G. Plochmann and J.A. Irmischer, 2nd ed. edited by L. Enders, Frankfurt, 1862 ff., 67 volumes; citation from 152, p. 58)
The Catholic church thinks sex is sinful, rather like the Jews that were “unclean” after sex and had to do ritual washings.
In the days of married priests they were forbidden to have sex the night before they said mass.
Because sex is dirty Mary could of course never do it .
Never mind it is a sin NOT to have sex with your husband if he desires it...
Do you understand that foolishness like this is why we believe you guys have idols?
This kind of statement shows the perversion of scripture and how it is passed on. The entire Bible is about Christ. All of the "types" are pointing to Christ. The fact that to justify their mariology the Catholic Church has taken a type of Christ and made it a type of the "Queen of heaven" show how far they will go to preserve that heresy. The ark was a type of Christ, The mercy seat on top of it is where God met with men Mary has not the authority to hear and judge men or to give or withold mercy "The ark of the Covenant was a picture of Jesus Christ. The Acacia wood speaks of the indestructible humanity of Jesus. He was 100% man. God Himself became flesh and suffered the agonies of the human experience. He was tempted, He was weary, He thirsted, He had to learn the Scriptures and learn obedience and to hear God's voice and be led by the Spirit as a man. Not only does the Acacia wood tell us that He was 100% man but the pure gold that overlayed the wood teaches us that He was 100% God. Jesus said "unless you believe that I AM you will die in your sins." He used the same words (Heb. eheyay asher aheyay) as when the Lord spoke to Moses at the burning bush. The Jewish Messiah was none other than Jehovah Himself visiting His people and becoming their savior by dying for the sins of the world and that is the etymology of the name Jesus (Heb. Y'shua 'Yaweh has become salvation'). Jesus condemned the religious leaders for not recognizing "the day of their visitation." The crown of gold around the top of the ark speaks of the Lord Jesus Christ as King of kings and Lord of lords. Jesus overcame the onslaught of opposition that was set against Him His whole life by the religious leaders, the wealthy Jewish aristocracy, Rome itself, and even all the power of the enemy. He overcame even death itself and rose triumphantly and was given a crown, and glory, and honor, because He is the King. According to John it was Jesus who Isaiah saw seated on the throne of glory with the angels crying 'holy, holy, holy.' The unbroken tables of stone set forth Jesus as the One who perfectly kept the Law and never broke God's Commandments. The Bible says that He "committed no sin, nor was deceit found in His mouth." Jesus felt the pressure of temptation at its full intensity yet he never sinned. Even the look in His eye and the tone of His voice reflected the very perfections of the holiness of God Himself. Aaron's rod that budded also speaks of Jesus. Something that had died and supernaturally came to life again . Jesus said, "I am the resurrection and the life." The golden pot of manna speaks of Jesus as the bread of life who came down from heaven to bring food, the Word of God, to a world in darkness and dying of hunger. It all points to Jesus. Even the golden poles speak of the ever living and ever present Savior who is with us in all our journeying and will never leave us nor forsake us. If you were to examine the history of the ark there would be striking resemblances to the ministry of Jesus our Lord: The ark went before the people - Jesus went before them: John 10:4 "And when he brings out his own sheep, he goes before them; and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. The ark was in the middle of God's people - Jesus is in His people: John 14:20 "At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. The people were to follow the ark - We are to follow Jesus: Luke 5:27-28 After these things He went out and saw a tax collector named Levi, sitting at the tax office. And He said to him, "Follow Me." So he left all, rose up, and followed Him. And on and on, the ark was always first to lead them. It was death to those that were enemies of God. The ark brought blessings and curses. Isa 53:2 For He shall grow up before Him as a tender plant, and as a root out of dry ground. He has no form or comeliness; and when we see Him, there is no beauty that we should desire Him. Isa 9:6 For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. Matt 5:17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 1 Pet 2:22 "Who committed no sin, nor was deceit found in His mouth"; Gal 4:4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, Jn 11:25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. Jn 6:32 Then Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, Moses did not give you the bread from heaven, but My Father gives you the true bread from heaven. Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Jn 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth." http://www.bible-history.com/taberna...e_Covenant.htm Look For Christ not His mother , she does not save.
Sorry about the formating on the other post
This kind of statement shows the perversion of scripture and how it is passed on.
The entire Bible is about Christ. All of the “types” are pointing to Christ.
The fact that to justify their mariology the Catholic Church has taken a type of Christ and made it a type of the “Queen of heaven” show how far they will go to preserve that heresy.
The ark was a type of Christ, The mercy seat on top of it is where God met with men
Mary has not the authority to hear and judge men or to give or withold mercy
“The ark of the Covenant was a picture of Jesus Christ. The Acacia wood speaks of the indestructible humanity of Jesus.
He was 100% man. God Himself became flesh and suffered the agonies of the human experience. He was tempted, He was weary, He thirsted, He had to learn the Scriptures and learn obedience and to hear God’s voice and be led by the Spirit as a man. Not only does the Acacia wood tell us that He was 100% man but the pure gold that overlayed the wood teaches us that He was 100% God.
Jesus said “unless you believe that I AM you will die in your sins.” He used the same words (Heb. eheyay asher aheyay) as when the Lord spoke to Moses at the burning bush. The Jewish Messiah was none other than Jehovah Himself visiting His people and becoming their savior by dying for the sins of the world and that is the etymology of the name Jesus (Heb. Y’shua ‘Yaweh has become salvation’). Jesus condemned the religious leaders for not recognizing “the day of their visitation.”
The crown of gold around the top of the ark speaks of the Lord Jesus Christ as King of kings and Lord of lords. Jesus overcame the onslaught of opposition that was set against Him His whole life by the religious leaders, the wealthy Jewish aristocracy, Rome itself, and even all the power of the enemy. He overcame even death itself and rose triumphantly and was given a crown, and glory, and honor, because He is the King. According to John it was Jesus who Isaiah saw seated on the throne of glory with the angels crying ‘holy, holy, holy.’
The unbroken tables of stone set forth Jesus as the One who perfectly kept the Law and never broke God’s Commandments. The Bible says that He “committed no sin, nor was deceit found in His mouth.” Jesus felt the pressure of temptation at its full intensity yet he never sinned. Even the look in His eye and the tone of His voice reflected the very perfections of the holiness of God Himself.
Aaron’s rod that budded also speaks of Jesus. Something that had died and supernaturally came to life again
. Jesus said, “I am the resurrection and the life.”
The golden pot of manna speaks of Jesus as the bread of life who came down from heaven to bring food, the Word of God, to a world in darkness and dying of hunger.
It all points to Jesus. Even the golden poles speak of the ever living and ever present Savior who is with us in all our journeying and will never leave us nor forsake us.
If you were to examine the history of the ark there would be striking resemblances to the ministry of Jesus our Lord:
The ark went before the people - Jesus went before them:
John 10:4 “And when he brings out his own sheep, he goes before them; and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice.
The ark was in the middle of God’s people -
Jesus is in His people:
John 14:20 “At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.
The people were to follow the ark - We are to follow Jesus:
Luke 5:27-28 After these things He went out and saw a tax collector named Levi, sitting at the tax office. And He said to him, “Follow Me.” So he left all, rose up, and followed Him.
And on and on, the ark was always first to lead them. It was death to those that were enemies of God. The ark brought blessings and curses.
Isa 53:2 For He shall grow up before Him as a tender plant, and as a root out of dry ground. He has no form or comeliness; and when we see Him, there is no beauty that we should desire Him.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
Matt 5:17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
1 Pet 2:22 “Who committed no sin, nor was deceit found in His mouth”;
Gal 4:4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law,
Jn 11:25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live.
Jn 6:32 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, Moses did not give you the bread from heaven, but My Father gives you the true bread from heaven.
Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jn 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.”
http://www.bible-history.com/taberna...e_Covenant.htm
Look For Christ not His mother , she does not save.
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