Posted on 07/22/2007 7:40:38 PM PDT by xzins
So normally the Godparents will be the bio-parents? I thought it was usually another relative or maybe a close friend.
Why feel guilty if your sins are forgiven? There is no motivation whatsoever. If you feel guilty and wish to repent means you feel that you have unforgiven sins. To a Protestant that is an oxymoron.
I feel guilty because I love God and want to please Him. Even though He has already paid for my sins, I still want to lead a Godly life while on earth. Asking for forgiveness and repenting of post-salvation sins will help me do that. Salvation and sanctification are two different things.
You can't claim righteousness through someone else. Either His righteousness is given or, as some would say, imputed the end result is the same. It makes no difference whence came the bragging right, whether you paid for it, or whether it was a gift. It's still given to you. And those who feel righteous have no reason to feel the need to repent.
Yes, inputed righteousness. That's what we believe. Our difference is that you do not believe Christ's righteousness is sufficient to save by itself. More must be added to it (our works) in order to enter Heaven. We disagree and say that His righteousness IS sufficient by itself. The works that we do after belief are God's works through us, not our independent free will works.
You mean God didn't kill Himself in order to satisfy His wounded pride? Or that God paid ransom to Himself? :)
“You mean God didn’t kill Himself in order to satisfy His wounded pride? Or that God paid ransom to Himself? :)”
Ah, see, being a fellow Balkan Mountain Bandit, you saw right through my apparently simple, but actually sly, conceit! :)
LOL! Was that a goat or a sheep?
“So normally the Godparents will be the bio-parents?”
No. Never. Usually its a friend, not so often a relative but it could be someone the priest chooses. In some senses its an expansion of one’s religious family.
“Our difference is that you do not believe Christ’s righteousness is sufficient to save by itself.”
Christ’s “righteousness” destroyed death, FK! We Greeks have a saying, “What do you want, a son-in-law with two eyes?” Gee!
Where is the verse that tells us WHO is a "true Christian"? The Scriptures do not tell us that "true Christians" will ALWAYS be brought back. There is no such verse. Are there any verses that discuss "true Christians" vs the ones who fall away and were "never true Christians to begin with"?
Regards
"For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him." -- 1 Thessalonians 5:9-10
Paul is speaking to the Thessalonicans, not to you. Secondly, "salvation" is not refering to going to heaven, but being part of the called, part of the Church. Naturally, one can fall away from this calling.
"For if we sin wilfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful hope of judgment and fiery indignation" Heb 10:26-27
God has told me I am part of His flock by the words of Scripture.
"I will never forget thy precepts: for with them thou hast quickened me." -- Psalm 119:93
Another verse taken out of context. This refers to the LAW. Certainly, one gets that from reading this VERY LONG Psalms, no? It doesn't refer to going to heaven or hell.
The Holy Spirit quickens us by the word of God. Yes, Jo kus, I believe that. And it is a sad situation that your church does not reaffirm this truth in your mind.
We affirm that. The sad truth is that you STOP there, not noting that the Bible has more to say about such matters. Rather than hear the truth, you pick and choose the verses that make you feel good about yourself and forgeting the other ones... That is why you revert to quoting the same few verses of the Gospel over and over. You think those five verses says it all, and ignore everything else that Jesus said...
"But if the righteous should leave his righteousness and commit iniquity, [and] do according to all the abominations that the wicked [man] does, shall he live? All his righteousness that he has done shall not be mentioned; by his rebellion in which he has trespassed and by his sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die". Ez 18:24
"For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed [the righteousness] of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of the heavens" Mat 5:20
Note, it says YOUR righteousness. Jesus NEVER speaks about HIS righteousness taking your place...
Persevere...
Your church tells you to be uncertain, fearful and not "presumptuous."
Baloney. Our Church doesn't tell us to be uncertain or fearful. You can drop the drama, please... Our Church tells us to read the Scriptures. ALL of them, not just a few verses here and there taken out of context so we can have warm fuzzies about our eternal destiny or invent some idea that we are of the flock and all that remains for us to do is... nothing...
No, never. The only requirement is that they are Eastern Orthodox.
I feel guilty because I love God and want to please Him
So, do you feel "guilty" because you love your wife too? You want to please her out of guilt? You equate love with guilt?
Even though He has already paid for my sins, I still want to lead a Godly life while on earth
That's you choice, but not a requirement in your faith. You could just as well sit back and enjoy the ride, do whatever you wish, and that would change nothing. Which brings back the issue of what pleases God? If the end result is the same whether you lead godly life or do nothing of the sort, you are "saved," then obviously nothing we do pleases God. He saves you regardless, right?
Salvation and sanctification are two different things
But what does sanctification accomplish?
Our difference is that you do not believe Christ's righteousness is sufficient to save by itself
LOL! FK, He made it possible for all of mankind to be pulled out of the of the pit of darkness our ancestors fell into. It was sufficient for all the generations, past,present, and future. He gave everyone a free ticket to paradise. If we don't end up there that's our fault. In other words "work out your salvation" (cf Phil 2:12) through Christ; He bought everyone a ticket. You want Him to carry you luggage too?
***Your sweeping generalization that anyone who calls on Christ is a Christian is simply absurd. ***
Jailer: What must I do to be saved?
Paul: Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.
If you won’t believe the Bible, you will believe anything else.
I believe in the Jesus Christ as found in the Bible. I believe that Jesus Christ saved me without my effort. I believe that I did nothing to warrant, invoke, instigate this salvation. I believe that Jesus Christ saved me because his Father told him too. I believe that Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God the Father and that he died for my sins. I believe that all of my sins have been paid for by Jesus on the cross, and I cannot do anything to purchase any minute amount of that salvation. I believe that when I die, I will be in heaven with God the Father and his Son by his side, and I will worship them forever and ever.
Now, my challenge: Which of these, if any, are heresy?
Read you like a book! :)
Not sure, but God will separate them at the end :>)
Then there's the God-made Christian. The only reason he is one is because of God's grace.
Eph 2:8 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
ROTFLOL! Your tag is teriffic!
Make that TERRIFIC!
:>O
More fleeting generalizations. Let's see what the Bible says one must do to be saved (by no means an exhaustive list):
etc, etc. etc.
There are actually many, many more "prescriptions" given in the Bible that tells us what it takes to be saved...take your pick.
I believe that Jesus Christ saved me because his Father told him too
This is a Trinitarian heresy, dear friend. Christian understanding is that God the Father does not order the Word and the Spirit like some lesser "gods." God does not order Himself. God does not kill Himself to satisfy His own wounded "pride," nor does God use Himself as ransom to Himself to propitiate divine justice.
I believe that all of my sins have been paid for by Jesus on the cross, and I cannot do anything to purchase any minute amount of that salvation
His sacrifice bought you a ticket to paradise. Whether you get there or not is up to you. You will have to work out your own salvation (Phil 2:12) through Christ.
That I may see the good of thy chosen, that I may rejoice in the gladness of thy nation, that I may glory with thine inheritance." -- Psalm 106:4-5"Remember me, O LORD, with the favour that thou bearest unto thy people: O visit me with thy salvation;
***Paul is speaking to the Thessalonicans, not to you.***
Ok, so we throw out 1 & 2 Thessalonians. What other part of the Bible do you want to throw out, Mr. Jefferson?
Amen!
Only the LORD had a delight in thy fathers to love them, and he chose their seed after them, even you above all people, as it is this day." -- Deuteronomy 10:1-4-15
"Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD; and the people whom he hath chosen for his own inheritance." -- Psalm 33:12
"For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake" -- Phil. 1:29"Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the LORD's thy God, the earth also, with all that therein is.
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