Posted on 07/22/2007 7:40:38 PM PDT by xzins
sibling or cousin?
Well worth repeating...
To him that hath it thus: It gives him conviction of sin, especially of the defilement of his nature and the sin of unbelief (for the sake of which he is sure to be damned, if he findeth not mercy at God's hand by faith in Jesus Christ) John 16:8, Romans 7:24, John 16:9, Mark 16:16. This sight and sense of things worketh in him sorrow and shame for sin; he findeth moreover revealed in him the Saviour of the world, and the absolute necessity of closing with him for life, at the which he findeth hungrings and thirstings after him, to which hungrings, etc. the promise is made Psalm 38:18, Jer. 31:19, Gal. 2:16, Acts 4:12, Matt. 5:6, Rev. 21:6. Now according to the strength or weakness of his Faith in his Saviour, so is his joy and peace, so is his love to holiness, so are his desires to know him more, and also to serve him in this World. But though I say it discovereth itself thus unto him, yet it is but seldom that he is able to conclude that this is a work of Grace; because his corruptions now, and his abused reason, make his mind to misjudge in this matter; therefore in him that hath this work, there is required a very sound Judgment before he can with steadiness conclude that this is a work of Grace. To others it is thus discovered: 1. By an experimental confession of his Faith in Christ. (Romans 10:10, Phil. 1:27, Matt. 5:19) 2. By a life answerable to that confession, to wit, a life of holiness, heart-holiness, family-holiness, (if he hath a Family) and by conversation-holiness, in the World; which in the general teacheth him, inwardly to abhor his sin, and himself for that in secret, to suppress it in his Family, and to promote holiness in the World; not by talk only, as an hypocrite or talkative person may do, but by a practical subjection, in Faith and Love, to the power of the Word: (John 14:15, Psalm 50:23, Job 43:5-6, Exek. 20:43). A work of Grace in the soul discovereth itself, either to him that hath it, or to standers-by.
"A work of grace" is "discovered" by men, not created by men, either within them or within another.
And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name: That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes. For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy. And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying. There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed. And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them. They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands. They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them. And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear. The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD." -- Isaiah 65:14-25"Behold, my servants shall sing for joy of heart, but ye shall cry for sorrow of heart, and shall howl for vexation of spirit.
"...before they call, I will answer..."
Could be taken to imply that "they would have called..."
Nonetheless, a point well taken. He FIRST loved us.
You forgot our Presbyterian "baby-splasher" friends too.
Oh, boy, but He is rumored to have hardened specific people's hearts. That's not exactly Him sitting on the sidelines and cheering.
Yes, on the whole Pharaoh thing I have seen minor disagreements, even on my side. My personal view is that "hardening" can either be a comparative act of commission or omission. God protects all people to some degree from birth, or else we would all be little axe murders running around. So, if God reduces the earlier protection, then the net result is equivalent to "hardening". That's my opinion, and I do remember that all of us did talk about this on another thread, but I can't remember what the answer was. :)
Another perfectly good possibility is that God simply created Pharaoh such that at age "X" years plus 3 months plus 22 days, etc., that he would be at the end of his rope and give himself totally over to sin. Either of these is fine with me, the result is the same. The point is that I don't think, and I don't think any Reformer thinks, that God is ever an original author of evil.
FK: "To accomplish the ordination all He had to do was to leave them alone to their own devices, ..."
That means He is standing on the sidelines knowing what our choices will be. This is not consistent with your previous statements, including the one above. The question is: did He put those choices in our heads or not? If you answer "yes" then He is the one doing the good and the evil.
See above, as far as sin goes, God leaving someone alone is not the same as putting a choice in his head. Or, under the other view, God designing someone such that he will be "appropriately" susceptible to choosing certain sin at a certain time is not the same as inserting a "sin capsule" into his brain that is to be set off by God at a certain time. Those are different ideas.
It's their understanding based on their language, the language of the NT. You are negeating them their own language!
No, silly, that would be a relative. You skipped school that day.
Ah, but it is "all a dream," everything in life making up the thoughts and purpose of God alone.
Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away. For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that." -- James 4:13-15"Go to now, ye that say, To day or to morrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain:
For those who remain condemned of their sins, their lives are evidence of God's perfect judgment.
For those who have been acquitted of their sins by Christ on the cross, their lives are evidence of God's merciful, unmerited grace. And those men live in and by and through the spiritual world, by the will of God.
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ." -- 1 Corinthians 2:11-16"For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
Do you have the mind of Christ, D-fendr?
I almost heard that speak up..
Have you ever heard of hallucinations? There are people who swear they have seen apparitions of Blessed Mary taking to them? Do you believe those? Or do you only believe the voices in your head?
Notice, D-fendr, you are up against the people who have no mind, but who believe they are the mind of Christ...
I believe psychiatry has a chapter about that...
For someone who claims the Scriptures are not inerrant, that the events in the Old Testament are stories made up to illustrate a point, you sure place a lot of weight in them.
BTW, hows your understanding of Hebrew.
Acts 26:14 And when we all had fallen to the ground, I heard a voice speaking to me and saying in the Hebrew language, 'Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads.'
But again your answer contradicts Scripture. FK's answer is much more accurate and faithful to His word.
Did God kill infants in Sodom and Gomorrah?
Are you serious? Her letters reveal something you could have never known from the fruits of her labors. Visible fruits of "love" prove nothing. Just like all the bible thumping doesn't prove that one is Christ-like. In fact, those who constantly boast that they are His children are my first suspects.
After all, it is the only true foundation for any psychological well-being.
Of course.
There are people who swear they have seen apparitions of Blessed Mary taking to them? Do you believe those?
I believe they believe they have seen something. Where it comes from is another question, whether it is a product of internal desire, or a physical manifestation is a different question. If it's a physical manifestation I don't believe it comes from heaven.
Or do you only believe the voices in your head?
Attempting to denigrate my competency doesn't make you right.
Have you ever gone off by yourself and prayed to our LORD for him to let you know you are one of his sheep?
LOL. Let go of the cord, x. He’ll catch you. 8~)
That's reminds me of an interesting Hindu view I recall from another life. Have you ever read Alan Watts?
Do you have the mind of Christ..?
Somehow I'm thinking we wouldn't be using the same terms here, but if we were, I'd say.. I could do better.
“In fact, those who constantly boast that they are His children are my first suspects.”
Incredible! I boast all the time that I am a child of my father and it is supported by the sworn testimony of the doctor and town clerk. I have a similar document from my heavenly Father sworn to by “He who cannot lie” and guaranteed by God Himself.
we are not speaking of errors but of the language. Apples and oranges.
But you are denying proper comprehension of the language of the NT to the people who spoke that very same language and on which, based on their understanding of the word to baptize, in context of times and culture, and apostolic presence, interpreted and implemented baptism as triple immersion, only to have this denied by people who are so far removed from that language, culture, context and apostolic mindset that they might as well be on another galaxy.
You are also discounting the fact that not everything Christ taught was written down and that it simply became the praxis of the Church.
BTW, hows your understanding of Hebrew. Acts 26:14
Not very good at all. But Apostle Paul's reference to "Hebrew language" is understood to mean Aramaic in this particular context.
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