Will the Pope's Pronouncement Set Ecumenism Back a Hundred Years? (Challenge to Apostolicity)

Progressive Theology ^ | July 07

[P-Marlowe]

I'm glad that God (and not man) decides whose names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life.

Well if I were in charge of writing names in the book of life, I dare say that the number would not be countless. It would probably be no more than a pamphlet. I also suspect that if I were to be consistent, I would have to erase my own name.

[adiaireton8]

but men have different ideas, different levels of Sprituality, differing needs in worship

Wow. Is it worth sacrificing visible unity in order to meet our "differing needs in worship"? Who in fact is being worshipped: the people who have to multiply schisms in order to personalize their worship styles in order to meet their differing needs in worship, or God?

-A8

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you oh so very much for your encouragements!

I know we don't agree on this point, but at least see the logic: If the infallible God establishes His Church and it includes persons, doctrines and structure, should we not follow Him?

If it weren't possible for man to mess up what God established for him then Judaism would have been subsumed by Christianity.

Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish [ought] from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. – Deuteronomy 4:2

Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men. – Mark 7:7

I choose to follow God. Him alone.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you for your encouragements!

[adiaireton8]

What would schism look like if "many denominations" is not schism?

-A8

[irishtenor]

Yes, different needs in worship. I do not need hand waving and shouting, others might. I do not care for contemporary song, others may not enjoy classical hymns. I may like a point by point 3 hour long sermon, others would not care for anything longer than 30 minutes. Just because we like different things doesn’t mean we can’t agree on the basics.

[Alamo-Girl]

Sorry that you do not find it helpful. It is Truth.

[P-Marlowe]

What would schism look like if "many denominations" is not schism?

This thread.

[irishtenor]

LOL.

[Alamo-Girl]

I also suspect that if I were to be consistent, I would have to erase my own name.

Same here.

Thank God for all His ways!

[adiaireton8]

Heaven help us. We have turned worship of God into worship of self, while deluding ourselves into thinking that it is God whom we are worshipping.

The situation sounds quite like that which St. Paul prophesied would arise in the last days:

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires; and will turn away their ears from the truth." (2 Tim 4:3-4)

-A8

[irishtenor]

Let’s try another approach. You and your spouse have differing ideas, different likes and dislikes, different hobbies, work, cars, what have you. Yet you are one. You both have different needs, different tastes in food, clothes, but you are still one. You are united, visibly and invisibly.

[adiaireton8]

Do you know a single person who accurately teaches the Apostolic doctrine/tradition?

-A8

[irishtenor]

I know many who teach the Christian doctrine.

[Alamo-Girl]

Do you know a single person who accurately teaches the Apostolic doctrine/tradition?

Yes, the Holy Spirit.

[Alamo-Girl]

I should have added that He teaches us today just like He taught the Apostles. If we listen to Him, we're hearing the exact same message. If we listen to others, we'll pick up noise.

[adiaireton8]

Indeed we are. But you wouldn't say that if the couple in question was divorced. So, what is the difference between being divided into many different denominations, and schism? How do you know that the different denominations are not "divorced" (so to speak), i.e. in schism? What you call unity is indistinguishable from schism.

-A8

[adiaireton8]

Yes, the Holy Spirit.

And which human being has the Holy Spirit and is truly being led by the Holy Spirit?

-A8

[irishtenor]

If you would follow my posts back (ignore the responder-who-must-not-be-named) you will find that I have said that I would be comfortable in many of those churches. That would not be so in a divorce. A church is a family, and families live apart from each other, and do different things, and the larger a family gets, the more diverse things become. Do you commune daily with your sister in Detroit? Your brother in Miami? Do you believe everything that your Granny does? Does everybody in your family vote the way you do? That doesn’t mean you are not family.

[irishtenor]

A schism is something that tears apart the fabric of belief. Do you believe in Jesus and are counting on his work on the cross to save you? If so, we are united.