Catholic Church & Jesus Christ-Why No One Should Be A Catholic

Apostolic Messianic Fellowship ^ | August 30, 2005 | Why No One Should Be A Catholic

[OLD REGGIE]

I'm Catholic, and John Calvin would have been happy to put me to death. It cuts both ways.

You are absoloutely correct. I suspect you wouldn't be particularly excited if I asked "Calvin, pray for DarkSavant". :-)

[Ping-Pong]

Thank you for your kind reply. Yes, I have read the arguments on the other posts and agree that we still disagree. To me the Rock can only be Christ.

As I have said so many times - how can so many terrific people read one Book and come away with so many different ideas? It must be in God's plan so let us all keep searching for that truth.

[faithplusnothing1]

Peter is talking about Paul's epistles here which contain our doctrine for this age of grace. Peter found it hard to understand how the Lord could go to the gentiles after he told them earlier not to. People were and still are twisting Paul's gospel and trying to tell people we are still under the law. Even Peter is saying here that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation.

[Mad Dawg]

No one church holds the truth.

Just for the sake of formal completeness:
There is only one Church and it is held by the Truth who is its head.

[wagglebee]

In verse 17 he clearly says that this occurs with both Paul's epistles and other scripture.

[nanetteclaret]

If you have read the Catechism, you would know that the entire thing is based on Scripture. For every point, there is a Scripture reference. Every doctrine has been derived from Scripture. I'm not saying that you are not telling the truth about having read it, but your whole post doesn't compute, because if you had read it you wouldn't be saying the things you are saying.

As far as "Biblical Proof" goes, there are many points of Scripture which are very plain and clear and which Protestants either dismiss, ignore, interpret with far-fetched interpretations, or argue that the plain and simple words don't really mean what they say (as if they can read the mind of the writers of Holy Scripture or even of Jesus Himself!)

Catholics "come to Christ" every time they come to Mass - in hearing the four Scripture readings and in receiving Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament. If Catholics are "not saved" it is because they don't believe in Jesus, not because of the teachings of the Church - which proclaim Christ in everything! If they are unsure of their salvation, it is because they don't trust themselves, not Christ or the Church! Even Protestants are aware of the term "backsliding."

Catholics believe that Jesus paid for our sins, but we must still be purified. The doctrine of "Faith Alone" is UN-Scriptural (see the second chapter of the Letter of St. James):

"So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead." James 2:17

"You see that man is justified by works and not by faith alone." James 2:24

"For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so faith apart from works is dead." James 2:26

You said, "faith alone in the first two must replace the doctrines of religion the RCC holds or the judgment of God is sure." How can you be positive that you aren't the one who is wrong? Sorry, but your statement seems to be quite arrogant and judgemental.

For every Catholic who "lives a life unworthy of the Gospel" there is a Protestant who doesn't either, so it cuts both ways!

[wagglebee]

Even Peter is saying here that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation.

Salvation yes, but not necessarily redemption.

[MarkBsnr]

What part of the whole stain [as you put it] is paid for by Jesus Christ, that you don't understand. You mock His death by suggesting otherwise. I understand you don't realize you mock His death but none the less that is exactly what you are doing. As He said it is finished. There is nothing to be burnt away, it is already washed away by the blood of Christ. My sins are forgiven because I belong to Christ and now I should believe that I have to pay for these forgiven sins. What evil doctrine makes Christ' payment less than it is - full payment. Not one of those verses refers to purgatory or a process between life here and life in the presence of God for those who belong to Christ. The thief on the cross. Jesus told him you will be with me today in Paradise. Was Jesus going to have to spend some time in this purgatory too. Or was the thief getting special treatment by not having to go to purgatory. NEITHER! The place, process whatever you want to call it does not exist. How can you not know that Jesus paid the full price of your sins? I state again the doctrine of purgatory is hated by God, because it is a lie and makes the death of Jesus Christ of no value.

Now you speak for God?

Aside from ignoring the verses to which you been directed to, you have essentially stated that you have a free pass in life to do whichever your whim points you in whatever amount and for whatever reason and don't have to bear any consequences at all.

That, my friend, is very spiritually dangerous and not a path I'd like my soul wander on down. Jesus did not give you the justification that you can do as you wish "once you are saved." The New Testament is crammed full of verses that tell you what you must do. Attaining eternal life with God is as a result of what you do and don't do. Jesus provided the pathway. But you must walk down it.

Accepting Jesus into you heart and soul is a must. But you must keep Him there. It is possible to reject Him even after accepting Him. I know people who have.

[MarkBsnr]

I do not defend what you call the protestant church. I stand with Christ and His Word. Denominations including the RCC are a thing of men not Christ. There is only one true church and that is the saved by Christ church.

The Catholic Church is not a denomination. It is the one universal Church of Christ Jesus. Everything else is an imitation begun by men. Calling oneself non-denominational seems merely self-justification for creating one's own dogma and not being called out on it.

[OLD REGGIE]

This is what was posted, in part, upstream in the 700's, Reggie. I know you are referring to my post since we have been going at this for hours and hours. I have this page on my computer. Where do you think it claims that after the Resurrection, Christ appeared to Peter first?

"After His Resurrection, Our Lord appears among the Apostles and three times asks Peter if he loves Him...".

You are correct, I first responded to your post #753, my reply #861. I asked the question because it seemed, to me, that His prior appearance to Mary Magdalene was ignored as if it had never happened.

Frankly, blame it on old age, senility, or just plain stupidity, I have lost track of the discussion. If I ever implied you claimed Jesus appeared to Peter first I was wrong and I apologize.

[OLD REGGIE]

No, He wouldn't be glad to see you put to death. Such a man would not be a true Christian. :-)

Right! He would have been sad but would do it to save Christianity. :-)

[OLD REGGIE]

The Keywords on this post are far more interesting than the article itself.

To be plain, the article is not worth the cyberspace it is occupying.

Absoloutely!

[OLD REGGIE]

I NEVER said it refers to David.

Since I'm the one who made the "Apologist" reference let me explain I wasn't speaking of you. I was speaking of the Apologists who make that claim.

[Patriotic1]

There is nothing wrong with good works. People should do them but not to gain salvation.

We agree on something! Catholics believe this fully.

The Holy Spirit is equal with the Father and the Son.

Another agreement!

That means they all live within you and how can you live a sinful life with their Spirit within you?

What is a non-sinful life? A life with no sinning? I think I lead a non-sinful life overall (lifestyle), but I do still sin, as we all do.

[OLD REGGIE]

Happy? You think happy? Of course, it was a bloody time and culture. Forgers these days get a slap on the wrist. Tell yho9u what, I'll slap you on your wrist twice, and then you slap me twice, and we'll call it quits, okay?

No slaps for me. I'm old and feeble.

[nanetteclaret]

You still don't understand Purgatory, which if you had read the Catechism as you claimed in an earlier post, you would.

Here is a simple explanation: Little Johnny hits his baseball through Mrs. Smith's window. He tells Mrs. Smith that he is sorry, and she says she forgives him, but he still has to pay for the broken window. Just because Christ forgives our sins does not mean that we don't have to make amends, otherwise we could sin all day and it wouldn't make any difference. As St. Paul says, "Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?" Romans 6:1-2

But we do still sin, even though we are saved, and even though we are saved from the destructive fires of hell by the saving power of Christ, we must still be purified into holiness by the fires of Purgatory, since no one may enter heaven who is unclean (Rev. 21:27). St. Paul explains this when he says, "each man's work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it wil be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire." I Corinthians 3:13-15 Are you going to argue with St. Paul and say that he really doesn't mean what he says, or that it means something different? And if you do, how do you know that your interpretation is the correct one? (Saying "because I said so" doesn't count.)

[nanetteclaret]

The greatest example of no Apostolic Authority is the fact that the Episcopal church ordains practicing homosexuals and a woman is now a bishop! For that reason, I realized that the Anglican/Episcopal church really didn't have Apostolic Succession, as they claimed, and it was only after I converted that I found out that Anglican orders had been declared null and void back in the 19th century! (Pope Pius X ?) Surprise, surprise...

[nanetteclaret]

You have conveniently forgtten these Scripture verses:

"So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead." James 2:17

"You see that man is justified by works and not by faith alone." James 2:24

"For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so faith apart from works is dead." James 2:26

[markomalley]

Another couple of interesting little disconnects with the "Sola Fide" (by faith alone) type of person (in general):

1. The act of your believing is a work. It is something that YOU must do.

2. The act of being baptised is a work. The vast majority of "sola fide" types subscribe to the necessity of baptism in water. (and, as for those who don't believe in water baptism, well...)

It's far easier being Catholic.

[Iscool]

Matt. 5:26,18:34; Luke 12:58-59 – Jesus teaches us, “Come to terms with your opponent or you will be handed over to the judge and thrown into prison. You will not get out until you have paid the last penny.” The word “opponent” (antidiko) is likely a reference to the devil (see the same word for devil in 1 Pet. 5:8) who is an accuser against man (c.f. Job 1.6-12; Zech. 3.1; Rev. 12.10), and God is the judge. If we have not adequately dealt with satan and sin in this life, we will be held in a temporary state called a prison, and we won’t get out until we have satisfied our entire debt to God. This “prison” is purgatory where we will not get out until the last penny is paid.

This is the first one from your link...This is a parable...If you (Catholics, anyone) don't get this one, you won't get the rest of the bible either...Your church leaves out the key verse:

Luk 12:36 And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.

The Wedding is over...The church and Jesus have been wed...These parables are directed at people, alive on earth, after the Wedding...They are not part of the body of Christ...They never will be...

But you are correct in a sense...If you miss the Wedding with Christ, these things will apply to you...

The Wedding has not YET taken place...That's why Paul's teaching to the church is different than the teaching in Matthew, Mark, Luke, etc...Hebrews...James...

That's why Paul teaches salvation by faith ONLY...And in Hebrews, it's faith AND works...If you rely on works to save you, you will miss the boat, and the wedding...You will not be in the bride of Christ...

You MUST rightly divide the word of truth...Forget the catechism...Get into the bible and find out for yourself...