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Question for Catholic Caucus (Catholic Caucus) (Vanity)
2/18/2007
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Posted on 02/19/2007 5:56:06 AM PST by markomalley
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To: Religion Moderator
What if it's laid out as Catholic Catechesis-Subject?
Scripture, Tradition, Magisterium, Catechism Reference to start and go from there.
That way it could clear up teachings for Catholics and others would know the purpose.
21
posted on
02/19/2007 9:43:02 AM PST
by
AliVeritas
(Stop Global Dhimming. Demand testicular fortitude from the hill. Call the crusade.)
To: Religion Moderator
Oh, well.
I appreciate your consideration...
22
posted on
02/19/2007 9:44:19 AM PST
by
markomalley
(Extra ecclesiam nulla salus)
To: AliVeritas
That is fine (and a great idea in my view) -- providing the material posted in the article does not make comparisons to (or speak on behalf of) other confessions.
If it does, then the other confessions might need or want to post a rebuttal and the thread would have to be opened.
To: Theoden; markomalley; NYer
Theoden's point about the reposting of Catholic Caucus threads gives me pause about the wisdom of keeping doctrinal and interpretive issues entirely within the caucus. But the question was put as a "once a month" type of post and, on that basis, given that we will not be silencing any discussion, I can go along with it.
I think we all need to face up to the fact that many articulate and well-formed responses to Protestant critiques of Catholic theology are simply ignored on this board and the same misconceptions, though answered many times to the very posters who continue to put them up, are perpetrated continuously without attention to dialogue. I view this as a debating tactic designed to show that they are simply capable of "posting something" rather than engaging in a true back-and-forth discussion, which makes so much of the effort we expend fruitless.
markomalley; I know you're trying to find a solution to this problem, and yes I do see it, but the real underlying problem from my viewpoint is a lack of willingness to respond to what is posted rather than an ability or an inability to control the debate. If people just want to "talk at" us rather than "talk to" us, we're never going to be able to change their ways.
Other than that, I am generally an optimist about human nature. LOL!
24
posted on
02/19/2007 10:07:09 AM PST
by
StJacques
(Liberty is always unfinished business)
To: Religion Moderator
Confessions of Faith
Advanced Information
Variations on the term "confession" are found in the NT (e.g., I Tim. 3:16; 6:13). In the early church the word was used to describe the testimony of martyrs as they were about to meet their deaths.
Its most common usage, however, designates the formal statements of Christian faith written by Protestants since the earliest days of the Reformation. As such, "confessions" are closely related to several other kinds of brief, authoritative summations of belief. The term "creed" most frequently refers to statements from the
early church which Christians in all times and places have recognized, the Apostles' Creed, the Nicene Creed, the Definition of Chalcedon, and (less frequently) the Athanasian Creed.(Elwell Evangelical Dictionary)
The Christians (or Church) referred to in blue is what is commonly known as the Catholic Church.
25
posted on
02/19/2007 10:15:20 AM PST
by
Frank Sheed
("It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged." --G.K. Chesterton)
To: Frank Sheed
To: StJacques
I view this as a debating tactic designed to show that they are simply capable of "posting something" rather than engaging in a true back-and-forth discussion, which makes so much of the effort we expend fruitless. I agree with you. I have noticed that within the last year and a half the number of Protestant posts have increased many times over. I would estimate that half of these posts are devotional and genuinely doctrinal in nature, but the other half are purposely anti-Catholic.
Case in point, all of the posts and reposts about abusive Priests, the actions of people who say they act in the name of the Church or that they are "Catholic", but are contrary to Church doctrine, etc... It is an aggressive "ad-hominum" campaign against the Catholic Church perpetuated by a very few pseudo intellectuals. They will believe what they want to believe, and they have no interest whatsoever in finding out the truth of what we as Catholics believe. It is not our problem that their Theology is largely based off of how not Catholic they are. They can tell St. Peter, and our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ face to face what they think of his pilgrim Church on Earth.
27
posted on
02/19/2007 11:06:25 AM PST
by
Theoden
(Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum europe vincendarum!)
To: markomalley; Religion Moderator
Oh, well.I have seen in the past few months threads posted closely following "Here's why Catholics are wrong" - type threads on exactly the same subject from a Catholic apologetics viewpoint laying out the Scriptural and historical foundation for what the Catholic Church teaches. It seems a more positive approach than attempting to "Fisk" Protestant tracts.
28
posted on
02/19/2007 11:24:54 AM PST
by
siunevada
(If we learn nothing from history, what's the point of having one? - Peggy Hill)
To: Theoden; StJacques; NYer; markomalley; Campion; SoothingDave; narses; Religion Moderator; ...
Personally, I see what Mark is trying to accomplish. As someone who has read these threads assiduously over the years, I have seen very capable apologists for both sides of a discussion. In almost all cases, the "Catholic" view is greatly enhanced by our Orthodox brothers, for example.
It is a shame that on a periodic basis, a post could not be made in the form of "Be it resolved that...." with a small "team" of several individuals from both groups calmly going back and forth with NO ad hominem or personal attacks. This is best done, of course, when a single apologist from each side has a give and take (as on a radio format), but as I've said, I've recognized great posters on both sides.
I have no idea how a team would be formed, but for the purpose of these "periodic discussions" extraneous posters would be ignored. The purpose would be to examine the doctrine as it unfolds by knowledgeable individuals and the exposition could be quite illuminating to read. As one who frequents threads on a variety of subjects, I have learned a great deal this way--by reading and paying attention.
If only FR and JimRob could find a method to see this put into place! I know that open discussion always finds the diamonds in the rough in many, many areas, but in a thread like religion discussions, the same turf is beaten to death over and over or relevant questions are simply ignored or finessed. The subject would not have to be done in real time either. It is often the case that a point needs to be examined or researched so that false information is not given.
If we could ever pull this off, everyone involved could "bookmark" the thread. Then, when some "newbie" comes aboard and is feeling his or her oats, the link could be posted for them to "read and learn."
Could it work on FR? I don't know, but it would be a real learning experience if it was done with honesty and with integrity.
29
posted on
02/19/2007 11:34:15 AM PST
by
Frank Sheed
("It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged." --G.K. Chesterton)
To: Frank Sheed
Could it work on FR? I don't know, but it would be a real learning experience if it was done with honesty and with integrity.I know that irenic discussions can happen. Witness the discussions on the Pontificator's blog. How did Fr. Kimel accomplish this? I've been reading his blog now since it started and his posts have had very meaningful and civil discussions. Very rarely did they get ugly. I've learned a great deal from him and other commentors. Not to mention getting stretched intellectually
Sometimes, a post of his makes its way here on FR and it quickly disintegrates and the substantive points that he makes are lost in the fray. Very disheartening to see.
30
posted on
02/19/2007 11:44:44 AM PST
by
Carolina
Comment #31 Removed by Moderator
To: sandyeggo; Religion Moderator
Someone pointed me the other day to the keyword search function. Type in the phrase catholic bashing and then search by keyword. It's most illuminating. It certainly is - especially when better than 80% of the threads that come up are mine. I'd love to know who's been attaching the keyword "catholic bashing" to my threads, especially since some of them have never been posted to.
Comment #33 Removed by Moderator
To: sandyeggo; Alex Murphy; Religion Moderator; Gamecock; HarleyD; Forest Keeper; wmfights; ...
People find all sorts of foolish ways to distract from discussing a topic and instead arbitrarily throwing tomatoes. Anyone can (and apparently has) put "catholic-bashing" into any thread they choose. So what? It means nothing except someone thinks they're being cute.
Should we Protestants start putting "protestant-bashing" onto all the threads for which we can't mount a good defense.
Oh, wait. I haven't found a thread like that yet.
34
posted on
02/19/2007 2:44:41 PM PST
by
Dr. Eckleburg
("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
To: Dr. Eckleburg
35
posted on
02/19/2007 3:10:45 PM PST
by
alpha-8-25-02
("SAVED BY GRACE AND GRACE ALONE")
Comment #36 Removed by Moderator
To: sandyeggo; Frank Sheed; Alex Murphy; Dr. Eckleburg
Someone pointed me the other day to the keyword search function. Type in the phrase catholic bashing and then search by keyword. It's most illuminating.I suspect that whoever told you about it is probably the one who has been planting that keyword on every thread which in any way criticizes the Catholic Church.
Carry on.
37
posted on
02/19/2007 3:17:57 PM PST
by
P-Marlowe
(What happened to my tagline?)
Comment #38 Removed by Moderator
To: alpha-8-25-02
Yes, a sad commentary.
I hope you know how valuable your Spurgeon threads are to many of us who read them every day. I send them to my children and to friends across the country. Thank you for taking the time to preach Christ risen.
39
posted on
02/19/2007 3:27:14 PM PST
by
Dr. Eckleburg
("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
To: P-Marlowe; Alex Murphy
Yep. And the problem is exacerbated by the fact that Protestantism is in direct rebuttal to Catholicism so it's difficult to proclaim the Gospel without making reference to past and current errors.
40
posted on
02/19/2007 3:29:19 PM PST
by
Dr. Eckleburg
("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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