Posted on 12/04/2006 7:52:47 PM PST by Pyro7480
I'm sure they wouldn't. I did have a passover seder once, but it was with a reformed Jew.
I wouldn't say it was the first Christian on Christian persecution. When the State got involved in Rome, there were several groups that would have had the basics right that were nevertheless persecuted for this that or the other.
You cite the unity of certain protestant groups verses baptists. To my knowledge, none of the groups mentioned believes that one must ABSOLUTELY be baptized to be saved.
We Southern Baptists certainly do not believe that. Baptism is an obedience to God, and while very important, it is not salvific at all.
Baptists believe it is a picture of what has transpired in the life of the believer. When one is immersed, it isn't unusual to hear "Buried in the LIKENESS of his death and raised to walk in a new kind of life." It is a picture of regeneration but is not salvific.
Absolutely correct.
I don't. The Holy Spirit dwells in ALL believers. When the Apostle Paul was speaking to Christians he said without discrimination 1 Corinthians 6:"19What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's." He doesn't say get your act together so you can be indwelt with the Spirit. He says get your act together BECAUSE YOU ARE indwelt by the Holy Spirit.
That of course includes avoiding spiritual pride - but what produces less spiritual pride than realizing that all that we are or ever will be are God's?
Agreed. Baptism is a picture of what has already transpired. It is not a part of making one a Christian. It is an act of obedience because one IS a Christian.
Precisely what we've been saying all along.
You've better balance that with...
Anyone who would react to Mary as if she were a goddess would be practicing evil. And what does the Bible say about this?
(1 Thessalonians 5:22 KJV) Abstain from all appearance of evil.
So since the scriptures do not demand that we kneel before statues and sing praises to Mary, and from an objective standpoint these practices appear to be idolatrous, therefore it is clear that the scriptures do command that we abstain from such behavior.
I wouldn't agree the Catholic Church errored in the idea of Original Sin and absolute depravity. The Catholic Church has errored in trying to reconcile the interpretation of the Theotokos with Original Sin. It can't be done. If you believe in Original Sin you can't believe that Mary was without sin.
I agree.
If it gives the appearance of worshipping a goddess, then it is wrong.
That was precisely the argument of Paul regarding eating meat offered to idols. Sure, we're free to do what we want, but giving the appearance of idol-worship upends weak souls. He goes on to say that idols are nothing, but that there are demons behind them.
Paul saw a thin line between the spiritual world and this world.
"So since the scriptures do not demand that we kneel before statues and sing praises to Mary, and from an objective standpoint these practices appear to be idolatrous, therefore it is clear that the scriptures do command that we abstain from such behavior."
The Church disagrees, obviously. And The Church disagreed when it set out the canon of scripture.
"Paul saw a thin line between the spiritual world and this world."
As an Orthodox Christian, I can't say that I believe there is any line at all, Padre. And that's what makes heresy and modernism so very, very, very dangerous.
I agree with you for the most part, Kolo. If there is a line, it is a perception.
Jesus' walking on water and changing water to wine testifies to that.
Where in scripture does it authorize any man to kneel before a statue, or to pray to a dead person, or to sing praises to Mary?
The scripture clearly condemns such practices. So if I have my choice between the Word of God or the traditions of men, I'll bank my eternal destiny on the Word of God alone.
Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye. (Mark 7:13 KJV)
It was the Holy Spirit that laid out the cannon of scripture. Those who chose that cannon did so at the leading of the Holy Spirit, who was determined to preserve his word by any means.
I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name. (Psalms 138:2 KJV)
Jesus prayed for all who would believe through the testimony of the Apostles.
The NT is that testimony for those who came after the Apostles' era.
Therefore, scripture has supreme say in the church as the words of the Apostles, upon whom the church was built, with Christ the chief cornerstone.
It is irrefutable.
Those either are or are not the words of Christ.
Amen!
What a great way to start the day, with the simple, uncomplicated truth. We need JESUS not a bunch of dead people.
I hope you find some Catholics to answer your claim.
Great point!
What also conveniently gets forgotten in the discussion about pre-Reformation Baptistic sects are the other characteristics that you see in Baptist Churches and in many Protestant Churches. The church government is decentralized and congregational just as the early church was. The strong belief in the separation of church and state. The great concern about church discipline. Also, most importantly you see the primacy of SCRIPTURE in these different sects of Christianity.
(Us Russian Orthodox are a bit more Vareniki (okay perogie. *sigh*) scarfing folk. :)
You responded to the points made in my post by throwing invectives at the sources and not answering the points that were made.
I returned the favor.
I don't think we have any common ground upon which to have a discussion. You reject the plain words of scripture in favor of tradition. I reject your tradition in favor of the scripture.
Have a nice day.
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