'The Nativity Story' Movie Problematic for Catholics, "Unsuitable" for Young Children

LifeSiteNews.com ^ | 12/4/2006 | John-Henry Westen

[D-fendr]

I'm wonderin how President Clinton's new Baptist Church will define "rapture"...

[bornacatholic]

Hey, you know the old saying, lack of evidence is evidence of lack...

And what is Lack?

Well, it hust happens to be a small village on the Old Sod.

And what was the principal religion on the Old Sod, Ireland?

That's right. Catholic.

And the Catholics have a Church, right?

Right.

So, if you think about it - lack of evidence is evidence of lack (or, another way of saying Church)

In other words, the Baptist Church has always existed and that is proved by its LACK of evidence

It is all so easy to judge the truth of these assertions when you just break it down using logic...

[sitetest]

LOL!!!

[bornacatholic]

"The State achieved by Bill whenever a new blonde intern is hired at his Library in Little Rock "

[kawaii]

The rapture is et another proestant invention inspred by Satan (same as many protestant ideas) for his joy of promoting the antichrists.

[The_Reader_David]

Directly, and indirectly: he did press a cloth to His face, creating an image of himself--very much a direct action--and King Abgar was cured--indirect I suppose. Neither action, direct or indirect, is recorded in the Gospels, and the Gospel of John states that there are more deeds Christ did than can be accounted for by the Scriptures (even allowing St. John's 'I suppose' to indicate a bit of hyperbole in his estimate of the volume of books needed to record them)--a good fat, handwritten codex of the entire canon of Scripture will fit quite conveniently on my dining room table, hardly a volume anywhere near filling the world to overflowing.

[blue-duncan]

"BTW, we Catholics can cite Early Church Fathers discussing The Catholic Church."

But not The Roman Catholic Church. That did not come until later. Ignatius began to use the term for the universal church around 107 A.D.. It did not apply to Rome as he was writing to the church at Smyrna. You guys are making me into a history buff and I'm getting off my sola scriptura game.

"That is oral tradition I just made-up"

But it's as good and as valuable as some of the other stuff I've seen on this thread.

[kawaii]

The gnostics, and heretics were hardly part of the church however (and that's where protestants get a lot of their crazy ideas).

Further you will note that none of the 5 ancient sees looked anything like the Baptists. (Fr proof check out the reccently discovered church in Jerusalem).

[bornacatholic]

Wow, David. I thought only us cool Catholics knew that :)

That is amasing,huh? As I recall, that was written by Eusebius in his Ecclesiastical History

[Blogger]

So you deny the Scripture that says that Christians will be caught up to meet Christ in the air?

[DungeonMaster]

Directly, and indirectly: he did press a cloth to His face, creating an image of himself--very much a direct action--and King Abgar was cured--indirect I suppose. Neither action, direct or indirect, is recorded in the Gospels, and the Gospel of John states that there are more deeds Christ did than can be accounted for by the Scriptures (even allowing St. John's 'I suppose' to indicate a bit of hyperbole in his estimate of the volume of books needed to record them)--a good fat, handwritten codex of the entire canon of Scripture will fit quite conveniently on my dining room table, hardly a volume anywhere near filling the world to overflowing.

Wait a minute! You can't have it both ways. The bible said the world couldn't contain the books which means He did almost infinite things. You can't call that hyperbole when you just said "Either there are not enough deeds of Christ not recorded in the Scriptures so that (on the Holy Apostle and Evangelist John's estimate) the world could not contain the books recording them, and we have a false passage in Scripture,"

[kawaii]

From wiki:

History

The popularization of the term is associated with teaching of John Nelson Darby[citation needed], prominent among the Plymouth Brethren, and the rise of premillennialism and dispensationalism in English-speaking Churches at the end of the 19th century.
In 1908, the doctrine of the rapture was further popularized by an evangelist named William Eugene Blackstone, whose book, Jesus Is Coming, sold more than one million copies[1], and then by its inclusion in the Scofield Reference Bible in 1909.
The rise in belief in the "Pre-Tribulation" rapture is sometimes attributed to a 15-year old Scotch-Irish girl named Margaret MacDonald (a follower of Edward Irving), who in 1830 had a vision that was later published in 1861. Some pre-Tribulation proponents maintain that the earliest known extra-Biblical reference to the "pre-Tribulation" rapture is from a sermon by "pseudo-Ephraem", attributed to a fourth century Byzantine, Ephraem of Nisibis, in which he is quoted as saying, "For all the saints and Elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins."[2][3] However, the interpretation of this writing, as supporting pre-tribulation rapture, is debated.[4][5]
Others argue[citation needed] as well that the oldest known reference to a great tribulation to come and a possible escape from it is contained in The Shepherd of Hermas manuscript dated to the second century. This text includes a series of visions that appeared to the shepherd. The first vision was of a giant raging bull, and the Shepherd was able to escape harm from it by relying on God for protection. The next vision encountered was that of a beautiful maiden, identified by the shepherd as the church. She identifies the bull as the great tribulation to come, and tells him he escaped it by putting his trust in God. She then charges him to go tell all other believers they can also escape the coming tribulation but only if they also put full faith in the Lord [citation needed]. This interpretation, however, is not accepted by scholars[citation needed], as it is clearly taking the visions out of context. The "escape" of the "beautiful maiden" does not refer to a rapture, or being taken out of the tribulation, but it refers to going through the tribulation and yet coming out victorious from it by faith in the Lord.[6]
There exists at least one 18th century and two 19th century Pre-Tribulation references prior to Macdonald - in a book published in 1788, in the writings of a Catholic priest Emmanuel Lacunza in 1812, and by John Darby himself in 1827.[7] However, both the book published in 1788 and the writings of Lacunza have opposing views regarding their interpretations, as well. It is inarguable, however, that John Darby held the pre-tribulation position[citation needed].
In 1957, Dr. John Walvoord, a theologian at Dallas Theological Seminary, authored a book, "The Rapture Question," that gave theological support to the pre-tribulation rapture; this book eventually sold over 65,000 copies.
In 1958, J. Dwight Pentecost authored another book supporting the pre-tribulation rapture, "Things to Come: A Study in Biblical Eschatology" that sold 215,000 copies.
During the 1970s, the rapture became popular in wider circles, in part due to the books of Hal Lindsey, including The Late Great Planet Earth.[8] Lindsey based his analysis that the rapture was imminent on world conditions at the time. The Cold War and the European Economic Community figured prominently in his predictions of Armageddon, and other aspects of 1970s global politics were seen as having been predicted in the Bible. Lindsey believed, for example, that the seven-headed beast with ten horns, cited in Revelation, was the European Economic Community, a forebear of the European Union, which at the time aspired to ten nations. (Now it has 27 nations).
In 1995, the doctrine of the pre-tribulation rapture was further popularized by Tim LaHaye's book series, Left Behind, which sold tens of millions of copies and was made into several movies.
The doctrine of the rapture continues to be an important component in fundamentalist Christian eschatology today. Many Christians continue to feel that world conditions point to the rapture occurring soon. Although this belief is strongly held in many English-speaking denominations, these views continue to resonate in certain circles around the world [citation needed].

[bornacatholic]

We call ourselves the Catholic Church.

Others call us "Roman" or "bastards"

"Roman" as a modifier for Catholic really came into vogue when the inhabitants of Perfidious Albion, the Anglicans, tried to pretend they were Anglican Catholic and were part of the same Universal Church as Roman Catholics

[kawaii]

Protestant lunacy at its best:

[Mad Dawg]

I don't see how anyone can argue with that.

[wagglebee]

I'm wonderin how President Clinton's new Baptist Church will define "rapture"...

As a stain on a blue dress?!

[bornacatholic]

Thus in the "Catechetical Discourses" of St. Cyril of Jerusalem (c. 347) he insists on the one hand (sect. 26): "And if ever thou art sojourning in any city, inquire not simply where the Lord's house is--for the sects of the profane also attempt to call their own dens, houses of the Lord--nor merely where the church is, but where is the Catholic Church. For this is the peculiar name of the holy body the mother of us all."

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you for your reply!

Very good. But note how the Church here is like a plant, planted once, watered by many. Protestantism, depsite of course, great many sincere believers, as a movement, was an effort to separate from the root.

Except for those of us who share the “mind of Christ” (I Cor 2:16) – and only to that extent - I cannot read the mind of my physical neighbor must less those who lived so long ago. So I cannot say why a religious leader did this or that.

Therein also my point is underscored. I recognize my brothers and sisters in Christ many times by what they write, having never seen them in person nor having heard their physical voice. betty boop is a great example, .30Carbine another, xzins another and so on.

More relevant to this discussion are the Scriptures themselves. It is the indwelling Spirit Himself who testifies to me that He is indeed the author of them – thus they are the living words of God not just another interesting ancient manuscript.

Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.

The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am [he]. – John 4:21-26

[bornacatholic]

The Pope is not impeccable. My logic is.

[kawaii]

Protestantism is more an attempt at slash and burn with a post humos spreading of the ashes.