'The Nativity Story' Movie Problematic for Catholics, "Unsuitable" for Young Children

LifeSiteNews.com ^ | 12/4/2006 | John-Henry Westen

[Blogger]

Well to you, apparently I am. How do you know that YOU have it right? For myself, my appeal is to Scripture. How do YOU know that what you believe is right? To what do you appeal?

Romans 8:15-17 (King James Version)

15For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

17And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

[Frank Sheed]

Am I missing something here? Peter-Paul makes Almond Joys and they're great!

By the way, to all who stumble on this post:

"May the Peace of the Newborn Saviour Abide with You Now and Throughout the New Year."

"And the Word became flesh, and made His dwelling among us."

A Happy and Holy Christmas, FRiends!

F

[adiaireton8]

Uh, the Catholic church has gone through a few splits of its own. Much larger, I might add, than any of the Protestant splits.

No. There has always been only One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. There is only one Pope, and one Catholic Church. Schismatics and heretics have indeed separated from the Church, but not by following the bishop of Rome. The Catholic Church remains always one, no matter how many schismatics and heretics leave her.

-A8

[adiaireton8]

It matters what Scripture says. I do not appeal to myself.

You just did, when you said, "It matters what Scripture says". You just appealed to your own opinion about what matters.

-A8

[bornacatholic]

John said that we have no need of a teacher.

*Good Grief, man. You MUST be having sport with me...

And the eleven disciples went into Galilee, unto the mountain where Jesus had appointed them. And seeing them they adored: but some doubted. 1And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

*Really. Your errors and heretical ideas are astonishing.

*What is the point of continuing?

[Blogger]

Then by the same respect, schismatics and heretics have separated from the Protestant Church. So there!

A8. Don't you see that such is a ridiculous point to be making? The church of Christ is those who have Him as their Savior. Man tends to organize Himself into people of like mind with Himself - but the true CHURCH is not an organization but rather is a living breathing organism. It's the people of God. That includes Catholics, Baptists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, Methodists, and yes - even a few Mormons (if that last one needs clarifying I will clarify but suffice it to say it would be dependent upon whether they believe what they are taught or whether they are in that institution for other reason).

[Blogger]

And you didn't answer my question. To what do you appeal?

[adiaireton8]

Then by the same respect, schismatics and heretics have separated from the Protestant Church. So there!

No, there is no "Protestant Church". There are only thousands of Protestant denominations and individuals, and they all started after 1517 AD. The Catholic Church was founded in 33 AD by Christ Himself.

The church of Christ is those who have Him as their Savior.

Indeed. But Christ's one and only Church subsists in the Catholic Church.

. Man tends to organize Himself into people of like mind with Himself - but the true CHURCH is not an organization

That's gnosticism.

but rather is a living breathing organism.

Yes! Do you think an organism is just a scattered collection or heap of individuals?? No. It is an organization, indeed the epitome of organization.

-A8

[Blogger]

You do err. Not knowing the Scriptures.

1 John 2

1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

...[Verse inserted to show who John is talking to]

26These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.

27But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

28And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

29If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

John's concern is not that people are not listening to the teaching of the church. His concern is that by now they haven't become teachers themselves. We are to teach. Yes. But we don't stay there as parasites taking in but never putting forth the least bit of effort to share the word ourselves. We have the Holy Spirit to guide us. That's us. The little children. Not a hierarchical structure. Christians. Believers in Christ. His little children.


John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

1 Corinthians 2:12-14 (King James Version) King James Version (KJV) Public Domain [A Public Domain Bible] [KJV at Zondervan] [Zondervan] 12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

1 Corinthians 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

John 14 1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

25These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.

26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

[Blogger]

Upon what do you base your belief that the Catholic church was founded by Christ in 33 AD?

And, NO. That is NOT Gnosticism. Grow up.

As an organism, we are part of Christ's body. Christ's body is NOT an organization but an organism. Otherwise, you are saying Christ allowed his body to be polluted by all of the SSOEAs throughout history. Popes with illegitimate children. Priests having sex with children. Popes having orgies in the vatican. Anti-popes.

The church of Christ is ALL BELIEVERS. Regardless if they are in a Catholic church structure, Baptist, Methodist, Presybterian. If one believes in the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior, then one is a part of His body.

What is your basis to say otherwise?

[adiaireton8]

How do you know that YOU have it right? For myself, my appeal is to Scripture. How do YOU know that what you believe is right? To what do you appeal?

Because I am in the "One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church". I appeal to the Church.

-A8

[Forest Keeper]

If Mary's DNA were not present in Jesus, then Jesus could not be the promised Messiah, since God had promised that through Abraham's seed all the nations would be blessed. If Jesus were not a literal descendant of Abraham, then either that prophecy would be false or Jesus would not be the Messiah.

Excellent point. The literal lineage was through Mary. Everyone knew what "seed" meant back then, so I see no reason why God couldn't have delivered exactly as He said it would happen.

[Blogger]

How do you know you have correctly interpreted the views of the church?

[Blogger]

Absolutely correct. God could have incarnated Christ without the use of Mary at all. He created Adam without the use of human agency. However, in order that the Scripture would be fulfilled, He came through Mary. It was a sign to all that He was who he said he was.

[adiaireton8]

Upon what do you base your belief that the Catholic church was founded by Christ in 33 AD?

The testimony of the Church.

And, NO. That is NOT Gnosticism.

Yes it is. It denies the material aspect of the Church, making its unity *merely* spiritual, something far inferior to the unity which Christ's prays in John 17 that His disciples would have.

Grow up.

That's an ad hominem.

As an organism, we are part of Christ's body. Christ's body is NOT an organization but an organism.

You are assuming that an organism cannot be an organization. That's a false assumption. Christ founded a Church, with a hiearchical authority structure: Apostles, and bishops, presbyters, and deacons.

Otherwise, you are saying Christ allowed his body to be polluted by all of the SSOEAs throughout history. Popes with illegitimate children. Priests having sex with children. Popes having orgies in the vatican. Anti-popes.

This is just as true if the body of Christ is an organism. When believers (especially those in authority) do evil, they bring shame and pollution into the body of Christ. That requires repentence and confession and reparation. But it does not destroy Christ's body; the gates of hell cannot prevail against Christ's Church.

The church of Christ is ALL BELIEVERS. Regardless if they are in a Catholic church structure, Baptist, Methodist, Presybterian. If one believes in the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior, then one is a part of His body.

That is true, but as I said already, Christ's Church subsists in the Catholic Church. In other words, baptized Baptists and Methodists and Presbyterians, etc. are in fact (whether they know it or not) Catholics who are not in full communion with the Catholic Church. By their [Trinitarian] baptism they are brought into [incomplete] communion with the Catholic Church.

-A8

[adiaireton8]

How do you know you have correctly interpreted the views of the church?

I ask my priest.

-A8

[Blogger]

How do you know that you have interpreted your priest's words correctly?

[adiaireton8]

How do you know that you have interpreted your priest's words correctly?

The last time I did this with my priest, I repeated back to him my understanding of what he was saying, and I asked him if I had it right. He said "yes", and shook his head up and down.

-A8

[Blogger]

To: Blogger Upon what do you base your belief that the Catholic church was founded by Christ in 33 AD?

The testimony of the Church.

Aside from the fact that this is Circular reasoning (which I will admit to on my own behalf but you will not on your own in all likelihood) How do you know your interpretation of the Church's testimony is correct?

And, NO. That is NOT Gnosticism.

Yes it is. It denies the material aspect of the Church, making its unity *merely* spiritual, something far inferior to the unity which Christ's prays in John 17 that His disciples would have.

No it isn't. I didn't deny a material aspect. We are humans. We are in physical human bodies. Christ will resurrect these physical bodies and glorify them in the future. I deny that the church of Christ is an Organization centralized in Rome.



Grow up.
That's an ad hominem.
No. That's an observation.

As an organism, we are part of Christ's body. Christ's body is NOT an organization but an organism.

You are assuming that an organism cannot be an organization. That's a false assumption. Christ founded a Church, with a hiearchical authority structure: Apostles, and bishops, presbyters, and deacons.

But that hierarchical structure is NOT the church. The church is the people. Not the structure.

Otherwise, you are saying Christ allowed his body to be polluted by all of the SSOEAs throughout history. Popes with illegitimate children. Priests having sex with children. Popes having orgies in the vatican. Anti-popes.

This is just as true if the body of Christ is an organism. When believers (especially those in authority) do evil, they bring shame and pollution into the body of Christ. That requires repentence and confession and reparation. But it does not destroy Christ's body; the gates of hell cannot prevail against Christ's Church.


Nice try, but not quite the right answer. We do not have to make reparations. We don't do penance. We don't have more sacrifices made for us. Christ's one sacrifice perfected us once for all. That is our only standing and claim to righteousness before God.

However, These Popes, Cardinals, and other SSOEAs have foisted upon those under their care many falsehoods over time - speaking ex-cathedra. By what authority can a church that for most of the Middle ages was made up largely of SSOEAs engaging in Simony, Pluralism, Selling Indulgences have any claim to any authority?

The church of Christ is ALL BELIEVERS. Regardless if they are in a Catholic church structure, Baptist, Methodist, Presybterian. If one believes in the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior, then one is a part of His body.

That is true, but as I said already, Christ's Church subsists in the Catholic Church. In other words, baptized Baptists and Methodists and Presbyterians, etc. are in fact (whether they know it or not) Catholics who are not in full communion with the Catholic Church. By their [Trinitarian] baptism they are brought into [incomplete] communion with the Catholic Church.
We weren't proclaimed so at Trent.

[Blogger]

How do you know he had it right?