Posted on 12/04/2006 7:52:47 PM PST by Pyro7480
And do you have any manuscript proof that an B.C. LXX actually existed.
All you do have is some BC fragments of the Torah, which were likely Targums, not part of any complete LXX
Christ and the Apostles never quoted from any LXX or the Apocrypha.
What you are perpetuating is the myth of the B.C. LXX.
Maybe it depends on our ears, and our ability to hear. No accounting for taste, someone smart said.
Christ never quoted from any LXX or Apocyrpha.
The Council of Jamnia did not put any Canon together.
It only recognized what already existed as being the Jewish Canon.
Christ idenified the Canon in the Gospels, which was composed of the Books of Moses, the Prophets and the Writings, 22 Books, our present 39.
Actually, in Lk.11:51, Christ states that the generation would be guilty of the 'blood of Abel to that of Zacharias'.
In the Jewish Canon, the last book was 2Chronicles, which is where Zacharias was killed (2Chro.24:20-21), thus, giving the entire Jewish Canon approval.
Amen.
Unto the church of Ephesus write....I know thy work and thy labour and thy patience and how thou canst not bear them that are evil: which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars (Rev.2:2)
It's not, since it is false.
Dr. F. F. Bruce correctly points out that, strictly speaking, the LXX deals only with the Law and not the whole Old Testament. Bruce writes, “ The Jews might have gone on at a later time to authorize a standard text of the rest of the Septuagint, but . . . lost interest in the Septuagint altogether. With but few exceptions, every manuscript of the Septuagint which has come down to our day was copied and preserved in Christian, not Jewish, circles.” (The Books and the Parchments, p.150). This is important to note because the manuscripts which consist of our LXX today date to the third century AD. Although there are fragments which pre-date Christianity and some of the Hebrew DSS agree with the LXX, the majority of manuscripts we have of the LXX date well into the Christian era. And, not all of these agree.
http://www.purewords.org/kjb1611/html/lesson08.htm
Amen, KM. Thanks so much for your kind words. God Bless you. :)
Kosta: "And here I thought faith was a free (unconditional) gift of God as they say. Seems like there are some heavy ropes attached to this."
God is in full control. This is not the conveyance of an arms-length offer, such as "if you cut my grass, I will give you $25." Rather, it is a statement of immutable fact, such as "if you drop a hammer, it will fall". God's will decides whether we ever declare Christ, for we are fully dependent on Him for the grace to do so.
Do you know that because your half-educated pastor told you, or you've been there and talked to St. Ingatius?
Chapter 8. Let nothing be done without the bishop.Was the "bishop" also a mystical one?See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid.
The early churches had nothing that could identify them with the Roman Catholic Church today, including a 'Priest class'.
Once more, you have the fantasies, I have the quote above.
Exactly.. (( EVIL ))... WoW.. Was true then AND Now..
However the Church "at" Philadelphia had the best part..
Yes, great point ftd, thanks!
Wrong. That would make Adam divine. Only God is perfect.
Christ had two natures and two wills, thus His human will just as able to fall as was the first Adam
Nope. That would make Him imperfect. There was no possibility for Christ to sin. His two wills are in perfect harmony.
The Trinity is made up of three persons who share the same divine essence
Which is godliness or deity. There is no "His" (Christ's) deity; it's the same essence of the Father and the Holy Ghost.
Well of course not, you have your own personal theological system going, that rejects interpret what the Bible says and what your own Church teaches
That makes me a "Protestant" I suppose. They are just my opinions. I defer to the Church in the final analysis; a Protestant remains his own "pontiff."
The oldest complete bibles (with some books later discarded, i.e. Epistle of Barnabas, etc.) date to the 4th century. The oldest fragments (more like "shreds" containing a dozen verses) of various Gospels are copies of copies, the oldest one being John 1 dated c. 125 AD.
According to this logic (I agree with Bruce) copies of ciopies, removed hundreds ofyears from originals (if there were complete originals) is not enough to retro-engineer any piece of OT/NT without having the original.
Doing so, necessarily makes the Bible a human product. Also, the fact that some of the Hebrew language DSS agree with pre-Christian fragments of LXX shows that there was no single Jewish canon.
But we have already discussed this ad nauseum.
Then we are helpless and hopeless. But, in Christ, everyone is invited. God knocks on everyone's heart and doesn't bar anyone from coming to Him. The decision is ours, by His permission.
Thank God, He offers His love to all. He favors no one.
Maybe it depends what we (don't) know.
No accounting for taste, someone smart said
It's an old Latin excpression de gustibus non est disputandum (of taste, there is no disputing). I am not disputuing your taste (or intention).
Nevertheless, we personally and intimately know God to whatever extent He allows for us, individually when we surrender to His will through the indwelling Spirit. (I Cor 2, Romans 8, John) There is no substitute.
I assert that the if/thens are Gods perfect justice. We spend our entire mortal lives building the scales whereby we will be measured in the Great White Throne judgment.
I further assert that our deeds do not determine who makes it into the new heaven and earth and who does not. Rather, if ones name is in the Book of Life of the Lamb, hell get in even if every thing he did in this life was counted for loss. In that event, hell enter the new heaven and earth empty handed. Conversely, even if he piled up mountains of good deeds, he wont get in if his name is not written in the Book of Life. (Rev 20) Thus, for the Christian the one whose name is in the Book of Life the good deeds which survive inspection will be treasure in the new heaven and new earth:
If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. I Cr 3:13-15
With neither of these, ones understanding cannot include Spiritual revelation at all rather whatever understanding exists can only be based on mortal sensory perception and reasoning either your own or that of others which you have accepted in good faith. Thus your statements concerning God are anthropomorphisms.
kosta50: 13736 We must not start with the narcissistic conclusion, and then try to find evidence to support it. The fact that God created us, and the rest of the world, is all important, even perhaps critical. We cannot isolate ourselves from the rest of that Creation and say we are critical and everything else is not.
This heaven and earth has elements which shall be purged before the new heaven and earth begins, i.e. evil, death, devils, etc. (Rev)
My leaning in the Spirit agrees with the Jewish understanding that the reason there was a beginning at all is that God the Father wanted to reveal Himself. And further, that He revealed Himself in four ways: through His only begotten Son Jesus by whom and for whom everything that was made was made (Col 1) through the Holy Spirit through Scripture and through Creation (both physical and spiritual.)
The objective of it all, as hosepipe is wont to say, is the establishment of a family with which He will dwell (the new heaven and new earth, Rev 21)
This heaven and earth serves the purpose of revealing God, especially by contrast that He is Good and not evil, that He is Light and not darkness, that He is Love, that he loves Justice and so on.
I do not need the carbon dating because the Holy Spirit Himself authenticates his own words to me, personally, by bringing them alive within. But the scholarly findings are important to many. And now they have them.
kosta50 13578: Yes, He is, but His presence is a sign.
Dr. Eckleburg, thank you so much for the passage from Acts 13:42-49! Id like to add another point that Paul and Barnabas splitting up actually caused the Gospel to be spread further and faster than if they had stayed together. This is why I never get upset over the splits that occur in the assemblies. One may emphasize an area of Truth the other does not but the net result is that Gospel spreads further all the while, e.g. the Orthodox split from Catholism, the Reformation, local rule churches, house churches, non-denominationals and so on.
I take that as a Hollywood distortion of Catholic doctrine. It certainly would not apply to the Catholics in my family and my other dear Catholic brothers and sisters in Christ.
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, [and] one shepherd. John 10:16
I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but [rather] through their fall salvation [is come] unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. Romans 11:11
And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: For this people's heart is waxed gross, and [their] ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with [their] eyes, and hear with [their] ears, and should understand with [their] heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. But blessed [are] your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. Matt 13:10-16
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: - John 10:26-27
forest keeper: But aren't you "crossing realms"? :) I have no problem in thinking that spiritual beings do not have mass in our realm, but as for their own realm, who can know? I think of Jesus and His resurrected body. We are told that we are also going to have resurrected bodies. These will take up space, somewhere. It doesn't have to be in our realm.
Thus I make no presumptions about the resurrection body concerning space, time (dimensions) or mass:
Finally, there are some questions He answers with images or impressions. For instance, when I was asking about the significance of Calvary, He gave me an image or impression of a great Light proceeding upwards from the Cross, spanning over all of space and time and innumerable tiny bubbles, rising up from the darkness, disappearing into the Light. The impression is that we are those tiny bubbles, drawn out of the darkness into His Light.
The other half of my family would respond He lives! and emphasize this with empty crosses (empty tombs) and a symbolic Lords Supper in remembrance of me. (Luke 22:19)
With the caveat that I eschew all the doctrines and traditions of men, the leaning I have in the Spirit is that John 6 must be Spiritually discerned. Indeed, Christ told them as much and many turned back from following Him not being able to receive the command that we eat His flesh and drink His blood.
The Spiritual leaning I have is that He is quite serious, we must consume Him really in Spirit and in Truth. We are to take Him in, He is our Life much like Adam fed on the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil we are to feed on Him, personally and continually. Not likenesses of Him, symbols of Him or material things but Jesus Himself. Here are the confirmations I have received in Scripture:
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever. These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.
Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard [this], said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? [What] and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life. - John 6:53-63
For instance, it makes no sense (to me at least) to bring the Third Law to bear on what constitutes human nature. Human beings have been understood since classical times as constituted by (1) body and (2) soul, or spirit (or psyche or nous -- different terms referring to the "spiritual" aspect). That is, they are constituted by a complementarity: This is not an either/or situation; this is a case of both. Just as with the complementarity of particles and waves in quantum theory. You can study the body part, and you can study the soul part. But you cant eliminate one of them and get a complete description of the human being.
I am reminded of Abraham and Sarah and Moses who developed gradually, perhaps even slowly and yet became spiritually strong and used of Him in their old age. And yet there was David who developed quickly and was used of God from his youth. The bottom line is that we are on Gods schedule not our own so we must be patient.
Abraham was chosen. So was Moses. Esau was hated. Pharaoh was used. Israel has been given a promise which applies only to Israel:
Quix 13568: Do you have any . . . concise exhortations to help make that easier, quicker . . . more complete, more efficacious. There are some of us who have a hard time effecting that . . . transaction sufficiently well, to our . . . confident satisfaction???
Not really, dear brother in Christ! All I can recommend is after laying something at the Cross, if it is picked up again repent for having done so (i.e. not trusting Him with it) and lay it down again.
THANKS TONS AND WELCOME BACK! It has been . . . itneresting.
RE the above . . . . I suppose leaving it at the Cross means not thinking about it; not even praying about it any more etc. etc.
Say it’s a habit of scratching mosquito bites . . . which is usually unconcsious . . . after scratching or in mid scratch—realizing—oh, AGAIN! Repenting noting “I receive your forgiveness, Lord”; and then blocking out again?
Sorry, the nuts and bolts mechanics sometimes get me down.
I do think this is a growing edge for this RECOVERING OBCOM
Perhaps we are so very much alike I cannot discern your handle apart from my own? At any rate, I apologize.
For those who die without the benefit of sacramental baptism, we are asked to pray and rely on the sovereign mercy of Christ. All, baptized or not, are judged by their works.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.