Posted on 11/13/2006 11:01:10 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg
My opinion is that we are given enough information to conclude that this Simon's "belief" was not sufficient for salvation. He was a textbook pretender. In verse 13 we are told that he "believed", but we are also given a reason why he followed Philip. It wasn't because he had faith in Christ, it was because Philip was a better "magician" than he was. I think he was awed in a professional sense. We are told earlier that Simon was very full of himself because of his opinion of his skills, so this makes sense.
Then a short time later, as you point out, Peter drops the bomb on him for trying to buy God's gift. This also tells me that Simon never had saving faith because we see zero change in Simon. He acts just as he did before he "believed". The Bible is clear that with true regeneration, there is a change in the believer. The heart of stone is replaced with a heart of flesh. We see none of this with Simon. Even Simon's prayer request betrays his true heart. He doesn't ask for a repentant heart, he asks to escape punishment. It is clear to me that Simon never really got it. Every thought we are given from Simon after he "believed" was about himself. To me, this in incompatible with saving faith.
-A8
That it does. Man's behavior, since the Garden of Eden, has been corrupted by his fallen nature and we can do nothing but sin -- "for whatsoever is not of faith is sin." -- Romans 14:23
So men's behavior condemns them.
But it is Christ's behavior which saves them. Christ, who takes upon Himself the punishment rightly due His sheep and pays for every sin they will ever commit in order to present them acquitted before God.
That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge; Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you: So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord." -- 1 Corinthians 1:4-9"I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;
That's called "begging the question".
Regarding the "bearing of fruit", apostates-to-be also bear faux-fruit. So how do you know that your fruit is *true* fruit, and not faux-fruit?
-A8
Because you place less value on Scripture than I do, I can understand your making that remark. I "quote Scripture" because I believe Scripture.
Thus, I realize if I was talking to a Russian or a Guatemalan and using the U.S. Constitution as evidence, they would have a difficult time accepting the validity of my argument.
So how do you know that your fruit is *true* fruit, and not faux-fruit?
LOL. Because Scripture tells me what to look for.
How does an RC like yourself know you are on the right track? Because the men of the church tell you so, right?
You believe the magisterium and I believe Scripture.
I'm not denying that having assurance has pragmatic benefits. But, I don't believe things merely because they have pragmatic benefits; I believe things because they are true. And what I am asking you is how you now know for sure that it is true that at the Final Judgment you will be received into heaven. And I've studied your post #25, and I cannot find any explanation there of how you now know for sure that it is true that at the Final Judgment you will be received into heaven.
-A8
Dr.E: Because you place less value on Scripture than I do, I can understand your making that remark. I "quote Scripture" because I believe Scripture.
I value Scripture no less than you. This is not about *valuing* Scripture; this about *interpreting* Scripture. You are interpreting certain "assurance verses" as applying to you. I'm asking you how you know that those verses apply to you. The answer to the question: "How do you know that those assurance verses apply to you?" is not "Because I value Scripture".
-A8
LOL. This is about clear words spoken by God, pitted against the machinations of men who seek to confuse, deflect and disarm.
It's just not that difficult. If my kids can understand Christ risen, so can any man with ears to hear and eyes to see and a new heart, all given by God for His glory.
Did Christ die on the cross to pay for your sins and did He rise from the dead in order to prove it true?
If God has given you the grace to assent to this sentence, rejoice. You have been redeemed. And while it feels like it's all happening in real time, it was actually ordained by God from before the foundation of the world in order to bring glory to His name.
Amen. "Deserve's got nothing to do with it." -- William Munny.
If God has given you the grace to assent to this sentence, rejoice. You have been redeemed.
Is that what you [falsely] tell apostates-to-be?
-A8
The issue here is *not* whether elect can fall away, but whether we can know we are elect.
-A8
With all due respect, my FRiend, I got the point completely. To paraphrase from C.S. Lewis, I've seen what evil can do - and I've helped do it. When you've physically embraced a mass murderer, when you've seen evil on a scale so huge that it beggars description, you realize that a righteous, holy God's stance towards me should be one of complete condemnation and damnation. Only His mercy, unwarranted and undeserved, saves me from that damnation.
God's stance towards me? Honestly, I don't know. All signs point towards my being among the elect, but frankly, I won't know for sure until I stand (or, more likely, grovel) before the Judgement Seat. The real question is, does it matter? I'll either get what I entirely deserve or I won't. Either way, the choice is God's alone to make. The clay doesn't get to tell the Potter what it wants to be.
I agree with you, but you are jumping into a conversation that is not about that. The point in question is whether one can know now that one is elect. You, like me, agree that we cannot. But there are others on this thread who think we can.
-A8
I've been reading some material the provides a different perspective. It isn't so much as to remind us to do things because we have been redeemed but rather it is to remind us of how much we don't do and need to repent. Consequently when Christ tells us to "Go and sin no more." or "Sell all that you have and come follow me.", He actually means just that. He isn't playing word games. Our failings in directly obeying His commands underscores our weaknesses and should lead us to repent on a daily basis pleading for His divine help.
Ah, I've thought much of this question and my conclusion-you don't. Christ promises that we will bear much fruit but how does any of us really know what fruit we are bearing? An evangelist might be able to calculate the number of "souls" he saves but what about others? And what "fruit" are we talking about anyway. When our Lord told those to enter the kingdom because...their response was "When did we do these things?"
At the end of the day God wants us to have faith in His promises. That includes that He has redeemed us, He has saved us, He will cause us to persevere, He will glorify us, and He will cause us to bear much fruit. We rest upon His promises that what He has accomplish He will bring to completion.
It's a matter of faith and trust; not a matter of taking a wafer every Sunday. Some may want more assurance of heaven. It comes down to faith in God.
Yes, our failings are our own and prove our inability to keep all the law.
Likewise, our sanctification is by the will of God, in order to prove it all true..."And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God." Romans 12:2
Our obedience proves the truth of Christ risen, proves the Holy Spirit within us, proves that God changes the dead heart into a heart of flesh that will obey and glorify His name.
Adiaireton8 asks how we can know our salvation is true? The answer is that if God "renews your mind," you will prove it true.
If not, you won't.
Do you think God is interested in playing "gotcha" with people? Do you think He wants His redeemed to go around unsure about their salvation?
-A8
Why would John say "that you may know you have eternal life" if we couldn't?
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