Posted on 10/22/2006 10:37:57 AM PDT by DouglasKC
The 4th of July was created as a totally secular holiday. It's an observance of the independence of the United States and doesn't have any pretenses that it's about worship to God.
Christmas, on the other hand, does have these pretenses.
What you are saying is that it is only OK to worship God on the holy days as defined in Leveticus. Why can't I worship Him on other days? We can't society have a day where we all take the day off from work and worship Him together?
I don't understand the logic.
Nothing wrong with that. For example, the feast of dedication, or Hanukkah, is a manmade holiday that is mentioned in the bible in a non-critical way. You can worship him every day, but he specifically commands that we come together on his days to worship him. And he specifically commands that we not worship as pagans do.
Is it your contention that Paul dressed up as the pagans did
Where did I ever said I was dressing up? Or for that matter having a jack-o-latern or decorating my home in anything Halloween? I didn't.
Satan is not "defeated".
Colossians 1; 12-14
12 giving thanks to the Father who has qualified us to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in the light. 13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, 14 in whom we have redemption through His blood,[c] the forgiveness of sins.
Luke 10: 16-19 16
"He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me." 17The seventy-two returned with joy and said, "Lord, even the demons submit to us in your name." 18He replied, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. 19I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you. 20However, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven."
As far as beating the devil at his own game:
Romans 12:21
Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
Satan uses every means at his disposal to snatch us away
You seem to be very fearful of being "snatched away", or "overcome with evil" however
2 Timothy 1:7
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
Vigilant, yes but I have no fear of being "snatched away" or "overcome with evil" by passing out tracts
I have always wondered why Protestants kept the cross around.
There isn't anything that we can do for God and our ceremonies do not please Him contrary to popular opinion. The Lord Supper is not about "renewing" anything. It is about show and demonstrating to people that Christ died and illustrates our faith.
I agree that "our ceremonies" do not please God. This is the very point of Doug's postings. Our ceremonies versus God's appointed times. However, it is rather sad and must be tough on the self esteem to believe that we cannot please God.
1Ki 3:9 "So give Your servant an understanding heart to judge Your people to discern between good and evil. For who is able to judge this great people of Yours?" 1Ki 3:10 It was pleasing in the sight of the Lord that Solomon had asked this thing. 1Ki 3:11 God said to him, "Because you have asked this thing and have not asked for yourself long life, nor have asked riches for yourself, nor have you asked for the life of your enemies, but have asked for yourself discernment to understand justice, 1Ki 3:12 behold, I have done according to your words. Behold, I have given you a wise and discerning heart, so that there has been no one like you before you, nor shall one like you arise after you.
Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, who brought up from the dead the great Shepherd of the sheep through the blood of the eternal covenant, even Jesus our Lord, Heb 13:21 equip you in every good thing to do His will, working in us that which is pleasing in His sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be the glory forever and ever. Amen.
1Jo 3:21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God; 1Jo 3:22 and whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight. 1Jo 3:23 This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. 1Jo 3:24 The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
I am going out on a limb here and assuming you might be misconstruing pleasing God with earning salvation. Those who follow the Law trying to earn merits and gain salvation work from a zero sum equation that assumes God does not want us in Heaven, but if we do enough good stuff, or our good works outweigh our bad, then He has no choice but to let us in. This is obviously not a rational theology if the Bible is our guide.
My rationale for following God's Laws and Jesus' examples are because I believe God and love Him.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
So, Harley, is it pleasing to the Lord when we come to repentance? How do we know when we need to repent? What standard is there that we must measure ourselves? What standard which we will ultimately be Judged against?
I haven't read all the exchanges here. I'm starting from the end and reading backwards.
We have no good works before the Lord. All of OUR works are as filthy rags to Him. When we "come" to Him in repentance, it is because He has made this so and granted to us the power of repentence according to His will. (2 Cor 7:9-10, 2 Tim 2:25). Any "good" fruit we bear is because of God working through us. (John 15:4).
Christians, for salvation purposes, are not judged by any "standard" for we have already been judged based upon OUR sins Christ bore. Christ doesn't bear the sins of everyone and those who don't place their faith in Christ will be accountable for their own sins-not a good prospect.
Whatever "rewards" we might have, we will cast them down at His feet for we have done nothing apart from Christ and the Holy Spirit working in us. There is nothing we have received that hasn't been given to us. (John 3:27)
Our standard by which we will be judged is through the standard of Christ who did/does everything for us. Those who wish to tell God they did this or that for Him will find they have some major theological problems.
The fact is the blood is poured out ONLY for many-not everyone. And this is a covenant that God has instituted-not man. Man fails miserably at keep his end of the bargin, something that God is well aware of I can assure you.
BTW-This is Baptist teaching, not Presbyterian teaching. While some Reformers hold this position, it is not necessarily a Reformed position. This is one of the few areas Reformers pleasantly discuss among ourselves when we're not busy arguing with Arminians.
I would suggest the following article for clarification:
Joh 5:28 "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, Joh 5:29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.
Harley, despite your doctrines of men, these scriptures (and many others) still exist:
Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, who brought up from the dead the great Shepherd of the sheep through the blood of the eternal covenant, even Jesus our Lord, Heb 13:21 equip you in every good thing to do His will, working in us that which is pleasing in His sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be the glory forever and ever. Amen.
1Jo 3:21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God; 1Jo 3:22 and whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight.
Gal 1:9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed! Gal 1:10 For am I now seeking the favor of men, or of God? Or am I striving to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a bond-servant of Christ.
Col 1:9 For this reason also, since the day we heard of it, we have not ceased to pray for you and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding, Col 1:10 so that you will walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, to please Him in all respects, bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God;
1Th 4:1 Finally then, brethren, we request and exhort you in the Lord Jesus, that as you received from us instruction as to how you ought to walk and please God (just as you actually do walk), that you excel still more.
Phi 4:18 But I have received everything in full and have an abundance; I am amply supplied, having received from Epaphroditus what you have sent, a fragrant aroma, an acceptable sacrifice, well-pleasing to God.
Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was taken up so that he would not see death; AND HE WAS NOT FOUND BECAUSE GOD TOOK HIM UP; for he obtained the witness that before his being taken up he was pleasing to God.
Those who wish to tell God they did this or that for Him will find they have some major theological problems.
This was addressed in the previous post
Christians, for salvation purposes, are not judged by any "standard" for we have already been judged based upon OUR sins Christ bore. Christ doesn't bear the sins of everyone and those who don't place their faith in Christ will be accountable for their own sins-not a good prospect.
I suppose for God and Christ, our sins have already been forgiven since the creators of time are obviously not bound by it. However, for those of us still here on sinful planet earth, how are we to comport ourselves once we have accepted Christ's atoning sacrifice?
Heb 10:26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, Heb 10:27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES. Heb 10:28 Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Heb 10:29 How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? Heb 10:30 For we know Him who said, "VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY." And again, "THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE."
You brought up a good analogy, but you didn't use it correctly. The lambs blood only saved those who CHOSE to put it on their lintels. The new covenant, under which only can our sins be forgiven and for which the blood of Christ is shed, is for those who CHOOSE to enter into it. Isn't the bible wonderful?
Where does it say in your verse that we are "renewing" our commitment to anything? The symbolics hasn't changed. Paul states that we proclaim the Lord's death until He comes. I don't wish to minimize the Lord's Supper but it isn't something we do for God. It's a proclamation to the world.
Oh? John Piper, from the website you linked those other documents from, has this to say in Until it is Fulfilled in the Kingdom of God:
To prepare ourselves for the Lord's table let us bow in prayer 1) to confess our sin and renew our faith in Christ's justifying death and 2) to ask God to give us the heart of Christ for the coming of his kingdom, and the completion of his cause.
Sounds an awful lot like it's more than just a public show.
I'm really not trying to twist your words. I'm attempting to take them at face value.
Where did I ever said I was dressing up? Or for that matter having a jack-o-latern or decorating my home in anything Halloween? I didn't.
Well then is it your contention that Paul would ever emulate, encourage or othewise sanction any type of pagan worship? My point is that by passing out candy on Halloween you are participating in and in effect sanctioning the activity.
12 giving thanks to the Father who has qualified us to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in the light. 13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, 14 in whom we have redemption through His blood,[c] the forgiveness of sins.
Wonderful scripture. But they still don't negate the fact that Satan is still out there and it doesn't negate the fact that we are told in scripture to be sober and vigilent of Satan.
You seem to be very fearful of being "snatched away", or "overcome with evil" however
That's you interpretation of my feelings. That's not how I feel. However, I'm not so naive as to believe that Satan has power and that we as Christians can just sit back and not be vigilent, not be on guard:
Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Eph 6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
THANKS to you and all the rest for your kind pings.
I think I feel fresh out. Some of the . . . exchanges . . . leave me feeling more weary and grieved than enlightened or inspired. And, some of the topics seem . . . more tiresome than others. I see the Halloween thread has wandered. Still, Halloween and the topics it's wandered to are both not high on my priority list today.
Thakns for including me. I may still read more than I think. And, I do respect y'all's perspectives . . . at least to a point! LOL.
One last trick or treat bump...think about what you're doing out there tonight...
All set, with my Almond Joys and Snickers and Reese's Cups and Hershey Bars, thanks! :)
Bump
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