Peter & Succession (Understanding the Church Today)

Ignatius Insight ^ | 2005 | Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger

[wagglebee]

And I suggest we all spend our free time correcting the lies by pro-abort candidates when they're attacking our pro-life candidates about "outlawing stem cell research."

That is one of the more sensible posts on this thread.

However, can you not understand why Catholics are offended to have their Church called a "sect"? And is it not unreasonable for Christians to be bothered when someone calls our Lord "JC"?

[adiaireton8]

We have absolutely no need for any "vicar" of Christ, because we have Christ.

Who is the "we"?

If the Church had no need of bishops and priests and deacons, then why did the Apostles ordain them to these offices?

-A8

[wagglebee]

I covered that in #847, most of these things that we as Catholics don't quite grasp will clear right up when we see the video.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/1723435/posts?page=847#847

[Petronski]

That is one of the more sensible posts on this thread.

I don't think so. Not at all.

Pro-abortion attacks on the Church are obviously villainous, but the kind of slurs being leveled in this thread--attacks on the Catholic Church and Roman Catholics at FR--are subtle and easily confused for innocent curiosity, or outright truth.

"Don't worry about this, correct the pro-aborts" is not sensible, it is a false dichotomy.

[wagglebee]

Did you read what I wrote in the next paragraph?

[Petronski]

Yes.

[Religion Moderator]

Open threads are like a town square. Posters may challenge other beliefs, religious figures, authors and so on. They may even ridicule.

They will often make false statements which are sincerely held and need to be openly corrected to the benefit of others who may also be under a false impression.

That is one of the many benefits of open threads!

Closed threads are like closed door chapels. Challenges and such are removed.

Posters who cannot tolerate and rebut the challenges should post ONLY to the closed threads.

Atheists as well as theists post on the Religion Forum, Catholics as well as Baptists, Orthodox as well as Mormons, Scientologists as well as Buddhists and so on.

Always be respectful in your posts. "Post unto others as you would have them post unto you," as one Freeper coined my firm guideline:

Discuss the issues all you want, but do NOT make it personal.

[wagglebee]

My statement about the anti-abortion threads (which I personally participate in as much as almost any other FReeper) was predicated upon getting some sort of response to why it is seen as acceptable to say these things without anything to back it up.

[Petronski]

Then we disagree.

[wagglebee]

So what was wrong with pointing out that some Christian groups incorporate rattlesnakes into their services?

[unspun]

Sect = a portion, or "section." Yes, it is pretty inaccurate to call the RC church, a thoroughly "catholic" church, unless one presumes that only Roman Catholic parishoners will be accepted in Christ, into Heaven.

[wagglebee]

That's fine. :-)

[unspun]

If the Church had no need of bishops and priests and deacons, then why did the Apostles ordain them to these offices?

The Apostles ordained bishops (overseers) and deacons, but not priests. They proclaimed that we are all priests and "saints."

[wagglebee]

That in no way answers my question.

[Petronski]

You're not surprised by that, are you?

[unspun]

Thanks, FRiend! Here's a thread on the subject!

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1724375/posts

[Religion Moderator]

You made it personal by suggesting the other poster, personally, return to handling rattlesnakes.

[adiaireton8]

The Apostles ordained bishops (overseers) and deacons, but not priests.

You left out the third order. The Apostles also ordained "presbyterois" (also translated into English as 'presbyters' or 'elders'). These are the priests, for they offered the Eucharistic sacrifice to God.

-A8

[wagglebee]

Okay, that makes sense.

[unspun]

Elders

They are referred to loosely as pastors, but not as priests, per se. They may have blessed and poured more often than not, but there is no Scriptural ordination of calling elders a priestly class, with sole responsibility to serve our holy communion of the New Covenant.

Remember that in the original Last Supper, the drinkers all "passed the cup" one to another. This specifically recognizes Jesus as our singular High Priests, while all the rest of us priests are peers at the foot of both the cross and the throne.