Posted on 10/21/2006 4:52:03 AM PDT by NYer
So, which of the 20,000+ Protestant sects is the one that is not "out of fellowship with Him"?
-A8
So, you acknowledge that it is entirely possible that EVERY Protestant denomination is wrong.
See #822.
I acknowledge that any believer who is out of fellowship with God through faith in our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus is lacking righteousness in his thinking.
-A8
I don't doubt that you acknowledge this. But the point here was regarding determining specifically who has the discernment to determine who has the anointing. You have claimed that the person who "continues in that anointing and the work of the Holy Spirit within the believer provides sufficiency in the believer's thinking to discern properly." That does not help us determine specifically who has the anointing. In fact, it just makes a circle.
A8: How do we determine who has the anointing?
Pentecostal: The discerning ones will tell us which people have the anointing.
A8: How do we determine who are the discerning ones?
Pentecostal: By seeing who continues in that anointing and the work of the Holy Spirit.
That's why I said that this gnosticism destroys the possibility of Church leadership. It completely subjectivizes the determination of who are the leaders.
-A8
According to the Father anything added to His Word other than His Will is heresy.
The Jews had Scripture. They added Tradition. Look where that left the Sadduces and Pharasees.
Today we all have an equal opportunity in fellowship with Him through faith in Christ to perform good works through faith in Him. We all are our own priests through faith in the High Priest, our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus.
All you really do here is create a circular argument. I find it amusing how anti-Catholics flock to Catholic thread to explain how everything in the two thousand year history of the Catholic Church has been wrong, but at the same time they can't come to any agreement on which of the multitude of anti-Catholic groups is right.
Protestants added "sola scriptura" to His Word against His will. Therefore, according to your own criterion, 'sola scriptura' is heresy.
-A8
I will feed my sheep: and I will cause them to lie down, saith the Lord God.
Then, later on in the same chapter, God says, ...
AND I WILL SET UP ONE SHEPHERD OVER THEM, and he shall feed them, even my servant David: he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd.
"Could one be a practicing and faithful Jew if one repudiated the authority established by God? (David and his sucessors)
In the New Testament, Jesus repeats the same pattern...
John 10 I am the good shepherd.
Then, in John 21, Jesus, following His Resurrection, which followed His building His Church upon Peter, the Rock, Jesus taeches us He is making Peter the Shepherd. And ONLY Peter. Jesus says these words only to Peter.
When therefore they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter: Simon son of John, lovest thou me more than these? He saith to him: Yea, Lord, thou knowest that I love thee. He saith to him: Feed my lambs. He saith to him again: Simon, son of John, lovest thou me? He saith to him: Yea, Lord, thou knowest that I love thee. He saith to him: Feed my lambs. He said to him the third time: Simon, son of John, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved, because he had said to him the third time: Lovest thou me? And he said to him: Lord, thou knowest all things: thou knowest that I love thee. He said to him: Feed my sheep.
*Can one be a practicing faithful Christian if one respudiates the authority established by Jesus? (Peter and his sucessors)
The Old Testament is fulfilled in the new and the archtypes present in the OT are revealed in full in the New Testament. The pattern is clear for those with eyes to see
Romans 8:16; 2Cor6:14; Romans 10:6
The word 'Bible' isn't in Scripture ergo????
The argument is false.
You quotation of our Lord and Savior isn't as forceful as its meaning provided to the believer by the Father.
Our Apostles knew through our Lord Jesus Christ that there would be strife for the office of bishop. For this reason, therefore, having received perfect foreknowledge, they appointed those who have already been mentioned, and afterwards added the further provision that, if they should die, other approved men should succeed to their ministry. As for these, then, who were appointed by them, or who were afterwards appointed by other illustrious men with the consent of the whole Church, and who have ministered to the flock of Christ without blame, humbly, peaceably and with dignity, and who have for many years received the commendations of all, we consider it unjust that they be removed from the ministry. Our sin will not be small if we eject from the episcopate those who blamelessly and holily have offered its Sacrifices. Blessed are those presbyters who have already finished their course, and who have obtained a fruitful and perfect release; for they have now no fear that any shall transfer them from the place to which they are appointed. For we see that in spite of their good service you have removed some from the ministry in which they served without blame.
The blessed Apostles [Peter & Paul], having founded and built up the Church [of Rome], they handed over the office of the episcopate to Linus. Paul makes mention of this Linus in the Epistle to Timothy. To him succeeded Anencletus [or Anacletus]; and after him in the third place from the Apostles, Clement was chosen for the episcopate. He had seen the blessed Apostles and was acquainted with them. It might be said that He still heard the echoes of the preaching of the Apostles, and had their traditions before his eyes. And not only he, for there were many still remaining who had been instructed by the Apostles. In the time of Clement, no small dissension having arisen among the brethren in Corinth, the Church in Rome sent a very strong letter to the Corinthians, exhorting them to peace and renewing their faith. ... To this Clement, Evaristus succeeded; and Alexander succeeded Evaristus. Then, sixth after the Apostles, Sixtus was appointed; after him, Telesphorus, who also was gloriously martyred. Then Hyginus; after him, Pius; and after him, Anicetus. Soter succeeded Anicetus, and now, in the twelfth place after the Apostles, the lot of the episcopate has fallen to Eleutherus. In this order, and by the teaching of the Apostles handed down in the Church, the preaching of the truth has come down to us
*I am sure many are well-intentioned but, we have the truth from Scripture, Tradition, and Church and those three sources are far superior to the personal opinions of our opponents.
"There is no doubt, and in fact has been known in all ages, that the holy and most blessed Peter, prince and head of the Apostles, pillar of the faith, and the foundation of the Catholic Church, received the keys of the kingdom from our Lord Jesus Christ, the Saviour and Redeemer of the human race, and that to him was given the power of loosing and binding sins: who down even to today and forever both lives and judges in his successors. The holy and most blessed Pope Coelestine, according to due order, is his successor and holds his place."
The prophecy in Matthew 27 is not referring to the thirty pieces of silver. It is referring to the "Field of Blood"(verse 8) and there is nothing in Zechariah about Judas being buried there. On the other hand, Jeremiah 19 speaks of a "Field of Slaughter" and Jeremiah is instructed to go and break a pot there to show everyone what God would do to them for rejecting him. In Acts 1:19 it is confirmed that it is the same field that Jeremiah was speaking of [Jeremiah 19:1-2].
The prophecy mentioned by Matthew was referring to Judas being appointed burial at the potter's field, the field of blood, or slaughter, in the valley of Hinnom, a place for strangers to be buried, or those that have rejected God. Him appointed such, is due to Judas having rejected God, in that he'd rejected and betrayed the ARM OF GOD, Jesus.
The Bible does not contradict itself....but sometimes takes more that superficial study to properly discern.
I have no argument with authority and even more forceful is the direct power of God through faith in Christ which requires no lengthy heirarchy.
It's ironic, isn't it, that a rule like "it must be in writing" can't be found appearing in writing. LOL
*Then Jesus was superfluous when He did this...
And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.
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