Peter & Succession (Understanding the Church Today)

Ignatius Insight ^ | 2005 | Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger

[kerryusama04]

LOL! The term "catholic" is a descriptive. The seven churches that are in Asia are/were part of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church, whose birth was on Pentecost

Does the word catholic show up in the bible?

[Pyro7480]

As I mentioned before, "catholic" is a descriptive. It isn't a matter of it showing up in the Bible.

[FJ290]

LOL! The term "catholic" is a descriptive. The seven churches that are in Asia are/were part of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church, whose birth was on Pentecost.

What he also doesn't get is that the oldest Christian churches in the world were Catholic. Do you ever read about a dig coming up with First Baptist Church in the Holy Lands?

[DouglasKC]

The modern office of "bishop", as defined by the Catholic church, is undoubtedly not an equivelent role to "episkopos" as used in the bible.
Undoubtedly? Have you read the fathers? Have you read the epistles of Ignatius, whose life long overlapped that of the Apostles? The role we see for the bishops in Ignatius is the same role we see for the bishops in the Catholic Church today. If only more Catholics today gave bishops the respect and submission appropriate to the office as Ignatius describes it in 107 AD.

Undoubtedly. Bishops in the Catholic church are prohibited from marrying. "Episkopos" in the bible are not:

1Ti 3:2 A bishop ("episkopos") then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

Not the same job description at all.

[unspun]

Read the epistles of Paul. That is the simplest answer.

Have, numerous times, thanks. Feel free to illucidate though.   ;-`

[kerryusama04]

What he also doesn't get is that the oldest Christian churches in the world were Catholic. Do you ever read about a dig coming up with First Baptist Church in the Holy Lands?

The term catholic (universal) is not in scripture. Unless you guys want to debate the meaning of the word "is".

Why are you so emphatic over this? The Church at Rome was simply that. Why is this so important? At any rate, I'm going to bed. Goodnight.

[Quix]

Have always felt those Scriptures were important Scriptures and too often ignored in Protestant groups, too.

[Pyro7480]

Oh well, you didn't seem to get the point. Good night.

[adiaireton8]

I hear you. There is no excuse for what those men did; it is absolutely reprehensible, damaging those children deeply (perhaps for eternity), and it has dragged Christ's name in the mud.

I can only say this. I didn't decide to become Catholic by determining the state of the Church. I decided to become Catholic by determining the identity of the Church. (Also, a solid understanding of the Donatist controversy is absolutely essential for dealing with this sex abuse stuff.) Furthermore, I want the sacraments, not mere symbols. And I want to obey Christ's three-fold prayer (in John 17) that we would all be one, as He and the Father are one. That's why I am a Catholic.

-A8

[FJ290]

Where in the New Testament, is "priest" related as an office of the church? (Instead, the Holy Word teaches that all Christians are priests, under our High Priest and Lamb of God. Period.)

Where is the title Reverend? Why does St. Paul call himself a spiritual Father? Do you call your dad Father? Why do Protestants have teachers in Bible Studies? Why do you listen to your Pastors?

You misunderstand the role of the Pope too. It is not to exalt himself over others. It is to be a servant to the servants of God. He does have a very important role as protector of the flock on the earth and the Christian faith.

[unspun]

It's so easy for us to get together and appoint a King Saul.

[FJ290]

Why are you so emphatic over this? The Church at Rome was simply that. Why is this so important? At any rate, I'm going to bed. Goodnight.

US emphatic? You are the one that mentioned it in the first place and challenged us on it. Why is it so important? Because it's the truth and truth is important.

[Petronski]

You provided much more answer than that deleted comment deserved. I commend you for that, and for your wise words.

[Petronski]

I believe the point of that passage is an admonition against considering any earthly authority as being in a position like that of God, for no earthly authority can compare.

[Sloth]

I contest the Church of Christ that you attend.

Feel free. I have never claimed that it is incontestable.

[Petronski]

Paul had no wife. Is he disqualifying himself?


Or does it mean no man should be made Bishop who has had more than one wife?

[FJ290]

I believe the point of that passage is an admonition against considering any earthly authority as being in a position like that of God, for no earthly authority can compare.

Agreed. Good point.

[unspun]

Your questions seem to ignore the question: why did Jesus say what He clearly mandated in Matthew 23? He was clearly talking about granting spiritual authority other than the authority of Christ, and what Christ confers to all.

Paul never claimed spiritual superiority, which is what is attributed to "priests" and the "primate" and as Quix points out, are all too attributed to clergy among other fellowships.

The fact that some have special gifts and some have offices in the Church does nothing to grant any of us any greater weight on the scale. Rather there are sternly limited roles to play in a scheme where all are to be accountable to all else, as equals at the foot of the Throne of God.