St. Pius X disagrees with the Vatican over Latin Mass, but Winona seminary still thriving

Winona Daily News ^ | June 24, 2006 | Joe Orso

[bornacatholic]

Man, them excomunicated priests sure can preach

[bornacatholic]

Photos of priests automatically suspended a divinis are really nothing to celebrate or promote.

[rogator]

"Photos of priests automatically suspended a divinis are really nothing to celebrate or promote."

But it sure beats photos of a "clown Mass" or a "mass" with dancing girls, even if a cardinal in "good standing" is presiding.

[Piers-the-Ploughman]

Murph,

As you know I do not find myself in complete agreement with SSPX but certainly they are much closer to Rome than the Orthodox who were unexcommunicated in 1964 by Paul VI not to mention probably half of the Western Catholic Church. For this reason, the SSPX definitely provides an especially valid option for Catholics who live in apostate or heretical parishes or dioceses. Apparently Rome has recently conceded the SSPX is not in formal schism but does have elements which have schismatic attitudes; this is a more objective conclusion.

Also, did I need read right here on FR that that B16 himself is reported to have conceded that the SSPX "emergency consecrations" may have been justified in that much of Europe is apostate, as HH JPII said.

Isn't the new prefect for Divine Worship who was appointed by B16, a friend of the SSPX former superior general?

My point is I find it regrettable to read one group of otherwise good Catholics discuss negatively the SSPX. We live in the real world, not in an ivory tower, and there is not a doubt in my mind that the SSPX although it does need some pruning has done much good for the Church and the salvation of souls. Would that all the Catholics adopt the Holy Father's attitide toward the SSPX instead making cheap shots.

Thanks for the post. Aside from the few political considerations which honestly I wish Bp Fellay did not allude to, I wonder if any of the SSPX critics will care to point out what heresy was in the homily.

[Piers-the-Ploughman]

SSPX critic: "Photos of priests automatically suspended a divinis are really nothing to celebrate or promote."

Rogator: But it sure beats photos of a "clown Mass" or a "mass" with dancing girls, even if a cardinal in "good standing" is presiding.

Thanks for that large shot of common sense Rogator. We have some truly smart people here on FR but without common sense it seems that's their inevitable recommendation: A clown mass or apostate/pervert/heretical priest is better for us than the SSPX. I don't know for a fact, but I seriously doubt B16 would agree with such "legalistic" reasoning.

[Pyro7480]

While we're on the topic of the Mass, here's some pictures from the Corpus Christi Mass and Procession at St. Patrick's Oratory in Kansas City, MO, which is adminstered by the Institute of Christ the King, Sovereign Priest.

[Piers-the-Ploughman]

beautiful pics Pyro. we had a very similar procession with the Kof C too at my novus ordo church

[narses]

If HH lifts the decrees of excommunication, as is rumored, then what?

[narses]

If HH lifts the decrees of excommunication, as is rumored, then what?

[narses]

If HH lifts the decrees of excommunication, as is rumored, then what?

[stop_fascism]

Not sure why you're asking me, but that won't stop me from having an opinion. If the Holy Father, lifts the decree of excom which the SSPX says doesn't exist, they can join in doing the good works of FSSP. Of course, the chances of this happening would be much greater if they didn't call His Holiness a heretic everytime they were in earshot of a reporter.

[Piers-the-Ploughman]

you wrote: "Pope Benedict does not approve of this schismatic group. He recognizes it for what it is: schismatist priests and excommunicated bishops"

you did not finish reading the Pope's mind, so let me tell you the rest of his thoughts

"....who are more Catholic than 80% of the Western clergy and that is why I am so desirous of reaching an agreement with them and that whatever their problems, they at least aren't perverts, pro-aborts, and frank heretics who pay disingenuous lip service to me as molest and violate their parishes."

[TheGeezer]

Sigh.

I do not read anyone's mind.

I know only that the pope has not recognized SSPX as anything but a schismatic group. He has admonished Catholics not to support it financially, to attend its services, or to lend it public support.

Now, if one believes one's teaching authority is superior to the pope's, then you can contradict the pope. But that means you are not Catholic, since Catholics must obey canon law and the pope, right? But the pope could be wrong on these matters of faith and morals, right? But wouldn't that mean that the Catholic teaching about papal infallibility is erroneous, right?

No thank you, I will stick with papal teaching authority unencumbered by personal prejudices. Until the excommincant bishops and illicit priests return to communion with the pope, they do not deserve serious consideration.

[Piers-the-Ploughman]

you wrote: I know only that the pope has not recognized SSPX as anything but a schismatic group. He has admonished Catholics not to support it financially, to attend its services, or to lend it public support.

actually there has been posted numerous times on FR letters from various priests/Roman authorities that concede one can attend SSPX service provided schism is not intended on the part of the person and that one can even make a contribution to support them (Probably not real large though :))

Undoubtedly the Pope does not secretly agree 100% with SSPX. But the reality is the Pope has far worse problem: it's called the Western church which is has far too many frank heretics and perverts. JP II said Europe was undergoing apostasy (and that huge problem dwarfs the SSPX and occurred in the last 40 years of our New Pentecost-and I think we can agree it wasnt the SSPX's fault).

[vox_freedom]

<< ...excomunicated (sic) priests...

In your dreams.

[vox_freedom]

Excellent sermon by the good Bishop.
Thanks for posting, and the pics.

[RFT1]

WRONG. The Tridentine mass was the missal used in Rome, simpily made standard for most of the church, except for liturgies over 200 years old such as the Mozambaric, Gallacian and Dominican rites. Even the different rites in the West were more similar to each other then the Novus Ordo compared to the TLM. All the rites of the West(except one that used Slavonic) used Latin as its liturgical language, they all had similar rubrics such asd the priest facing the altar, they all had communion with one species, they all used the altar rails for communion, lay involvment in the sanctuary was not only unheard of, but it wasnt even contemplated.

As for the basis for the rite in the West, it goes back to the very eraly church, and codified by People Gregory the Great in the 500s. So it is as old as the Devine Liturgy.

[RFT1]

Its a complex situation, and not even all the parishoners who attend SSPX chapels(and except for a handful of 3rd order SSPX members, the laity are not members of the SSPX, but simpily Catholics) or even clergy are on the same page.

My take is if a indult is avilable in a convinent time and place, one has to attend there, if its the situation that one sees in the LA archdiocese, then attendence to a SSPX chapel can be justified as long as one does not get a schismatic mindset. Sadly Bp. Williamson and his ilk has severely poisoned the well.

[Piers-the-Ploughman]

it is complex situation and sadly some of the polemics from the SSPX are not helpful and can fuel a schismatic attitude, no doubt. But, I would say it is generally licit to attend (does not canon law allow us to go to Orthodox church?) unless the motivation is clearly schismatic.

I have a suspicion that if more orthodox Catholics would support the SSPX in some way at least and not support their heretical ordinary or priest, then that would help ease out many of the heretics and give Rome good reason to move these guys out quicker.

[Pyro7480]

He has admonished Catholics not to support it financially, to attend its services, or to lend it public support.

Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger on the So-called SSPX "Hawaii Five"

His Excellency, the Most Reverend Joseph Anthony Ferrario, with aforesaid Decree, declared Mrs. Morley excommunicated on the grounds that she had committed the crime of schism and thus had incurred the "latae sententiae" penalty as provided for in Canon 1364 §1 of the Code of Canon Law.

This Congregation has examined carefully all the available documentation and has ascertained that the activities engaged in by the Petitioner, though blameworthy on various accounts, are not sufficient to constitute the crime of schism.

Since Mrs. Morley did not, in fact, commit the crime of schism and thus did not incur the "latae sententiae" penalty, it is clear that the Decree of the Bishop lacks the precondition on which is founded.

This Congregation, noting all of the above, is obliged to declare null and void the aforesaid Decree of the Ordinary of Honolulu.