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Gay Theology: Is God "Doing a New Thing"?
VirtueOnline-News ^ | 6/22/2006

Posted on 06/22/2006 12:39:38 PM PDT by sionnsar

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To: xzins
Far better than a rule that says "nothing can be rewritten that has been written." Apostates can really hide behind that.

Good point. It's kind of like the way fans of Roe V. Wade hide behind stare decisis.

61 posted on 06/23/2006 8:00:00 AM PDT by murdoog
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To: murdoog

Yes, stare decisis is a good illustration. Thanks.


62 posted on 06/23/2006 8:08:10 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It. Supporting our Troops Means Praying for them to Win!)
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To: xzins

"I think the Church is that body that is descended from the body that Jesus started:"
________________________________________

As I am sure you are aware, one of the never ending discussions here is about the primacy, or lack thereof, of the Roman Catholic Church. Are you ascribing to the view that because they claim succession through Peter that they are "The CHURCH"?


63 posted on 06/23/2006 8:17:17 AM PDT by wmfights (Lead, Follow, or Get Out Of The WAY!)
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To: xzins; TXnMA
Thank you so very much for your insightful post, dear xzins!

I think the Church is that body that is descended from the body that Jesus started:

They went from Jerusalem, to Judea, to Samaria, to the uttermost parts of the earth.

But they WERE NOT just anyone who decided to hang out a shingle with the words "First Church of the Stuff We Think Is Right."

Indeed. TXnMA used a metaphor on on another thread which I find particularly helpful:

I was amused at how much true Christians are like multicolored wires in a complex cable. When one strips away the externals that appear to differentiate us -- like the colored insulation distinguishes and isolates one wire from another -- what is left is the solid metal core where the Power flows. And those cores are very much alike -- just as true believers are all alike when standing at the foot of the Cross.


64 posted on 06/23/2006 8:21:28 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: xzins

"If they can't demonstrate their connection to the early Church, then where is their authority? After all Jesus said that the Church would be unconquerable and that "the gates of hell would not prevail" against it."
______________________________________

The source of all authority on earth today rests in SCRIPTURE. It is the only source we have that is the inerrant WORD of GOD. All other sources, no matter how long or fine their history, come from man's opinion and has to be viewed with caution. If you fall into the trap of placing your FAITH in anything other than JESUS, such as a long established church, you are setting yourself up to be misguided.


65 posted on 06/23/2006 8:23:18 AM PDT by wmfights (Lead, Follow, or Get Out Of The WAY!)
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To: xzins
Far better than a rule that says "nothing can be rewritten that has been written." Apostates can really hide behind that.

Well I guess we have a fundamental difference of opinion.

I rather like the idea that a faithful believer should not need to abandon the ship to the pirates and head for the life boats. In my view of things, the ship of Jesus Christ always repels boarders.....eventually......after a fight, and it's the brigands who depart.

I also believe that apostates are emboldened by the idea that everything can be changed by a simple vote and sufficient lobbying and advertising. It's simply saying that the Church is yours for the taking......given the right degree of planning and strategy.

I'm more for the "Moses model".

He descended from the mountain with the commandments engraved in stone, not written in erasable crayon.

66 posted on 06/23/2006 9:04:07 AM PDT by marshmallow
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To: xzins
The church that I used to attend (the one I spent the vast majority of my life in) was one that claimed "authority". How did they use (I should say, abuse) that authority? They used it to move the church into liberal Protestantism and to disfellowship those who didn't agree with their direction. Those who wanted to remain true to the word were told we were no longer considered brothers and sisters in the faith.

The only thing "authority" is good for is for keeping people squashed under your thumb and calling someone else a heretic, even if the person doing the name-calling is the one who is heretical.

67 posted on 06/23/2006 9:11:00 AM PDT by where HE leads me
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To: marshmallow

I try not to confuse my summation of historic Christianity with the inspired Word of God.


68 posted on 06/23/2006 9:26:09 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It. Supporting our Troops Means Praying for them to Win!)
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To: where HE leads me
A real church is both the spiritual descendants of the Early Christians and they are descended through the lineage of ordination.

They must ALSO be the spiritual descendants of the early Christians in my view.

Discounting brothers and sisters because they follow the inspired scripture is not in the spiritual lineage of the early church.

69 posted on 06/23/2006 9:31:13 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It. Supporting our Troops Means Praying for them to Win!)
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To: xzins

It is not the language that bothers me so much as the interpretation of it. It goes back to John Wesley, who could not decide whether he was Calvinist or Arminian. An enormously gifted evangelist; a fuzzy thinker.

Anyway, I dislike much of what I find in Catholic hymnbooks, but I am always delighted to see a Charles Wesley hymn announced.


70 posted on 06/23/2006 9:46:37 AM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: where HE leads me

C. Wright Mills, the radical writer, said that power consisted of three basic types: Authority, manipulation, and force. Authority is the legitimate kind. It is not wrong to have captains and mates in charge of the ship; it is wrong for them to abuse their positions and resort to manipulation and force. This is certainly what has happened in the ECUSA. It has even happened occasionally in the Catholic Church. The devil's henchmen are everywhere.


71 posted on 06/23/2006 9:54:04 AM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: RobbyS

Wesley was trying hard to be a calvinist in the tradition of Arminius.

Arminius was, of course, a professor at a major calvinist university and a preacher in a major calvinist pulpit.

He was examined many times and allowed to remain, and it was not until after his death that he was found theologically wanting.

My own sense was that he had a more expansive view of what Calvin taught and was able to explain it in person, but that his followers were not.


72 posted on 06/23/2006 9:55:36 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It. Supporting our Troops Means Praying for them to Win!)
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To: xzins

Two points there: Calvin was not a Calvinist; Wesley was not a Wesleyan. Goes with the territory. When great men are dead, their followers tend to get off the track they laid down. They simply don't have the same charisma.


73 posted on 06/23/2006 10:07:16 AM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: wmfights

The RCC has a traceable lineage back to the early church. They aren't the only ones who can, though. And then there's always the issue of spiritual lineage to keep excesses in check.


74 posted on 06/23/2006 10:15:56 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It. Supporting our Troops Means Praying for them to Win!)
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To: where HE leads me

Wasn't the Community of Christ formerly known as the Reorganized Church of Latter Day Saints?


75 posted on 06/23/2006 10:50:44 AM PDT by Binghamton_native
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To: Binghamton_native; alamo boy

Yes. More precisely, the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

Do we know each other?


76 posted on 06/23/2006 12:49:54 PM PDT by where HE leads me
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To: xzins; Alamo-Girl
You might find it userful to follow the link that A-G provided -- and to "back-track" up the thread to d1scern the context.

To carry the methaphor even farther, there are those in "organizations calling themselves 'churches'" who are like a brightly-colored wire with nothing but insulation: strip them down, and there is nothing left...

77 posted on 06/23/2006 7:01:42 PM PDT by TXnMA ("Allah" = Satan in disguise)
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To: .30Carbine
I have heard of that Gospel, but did not think to apply it in this case.

Thanks for the reminder. I stand corrected.

78 posted on 06/23/2006 9:01:07 PM PDT by kstewskis ("Aim small, miss small...." Benjamin Martin to Nathan and Samuel)
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To: TXnMA
To carry the methaphor even farther, there are those in "organizations calling themselves 'churches'" who are like a brightly-colored wire with nothing but insulation: strip them down, and there is nothing left...

So sad but very true. Thank you for insights, dear TXnMA!
79 posted on 06/23/2006 9:32:20 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: kstewskis

You are so welcome. Thank you for your kind reply.


80 posted on 06/24/2006 12:14:35 AM PDT by .30Carbine
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