Should I burn Grandma's photo?
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Locked on 03/28/2006 7:00:32 AM PST by Religion Moderator, reason:
No thanks. |
Posted on 03/25/2006 11:29:40 PM PST by Laissez-faire capitalist
While the early church wasn't against art in and of itself, there are no scriptural references within the New Testament (The New Covenant which all Christians have been given to live by) which allow giving reverence to what the images and art supposedly represent, or the art or images themselves.
Here are some quotes from some pre-Nicene church fathers:
1.) "It is with a different kind of spell that art deludes you...It leads you to pay religious honor and worship to images and pictures." (Clement of Alexandria, c. 195 AD)
2.) "The Law itself exhibits justice. It teaches wisdom by abstinence from visible images and by inviting us to the Maker and Father of the universe." (Clement of Alexandria, c. 195 AD)
3.) "Works of art cannot be sacred and divine." (Clement of Alexandria, c. 195 AD)
4.) "In a word, if we refuse our homage to statues and frigid images....does it not merit praise instead of penalty that we have rejected what we have come to see is error?" (Tertullian, c. 197 AD)
5.) "We know that the names of the dead are nothing, as are their images. But when images are set up, we know well enough, too, who carry on their wicked work under thses names. We know who exult in the homage rendered to images. We know who pretend to be divine. It is none other than accursed spirits." (Tertullian, c. 197 AD)
6.) "Demons have their abode in the images of the dead." (Tertullian, c. 197 AD)
7.) "How could [Peter] have known Moses and Elijah except in the spirit? People could not have had their images, statues or likenesses. For the Law forbad that." (Tertullian, c. 207 AD)
8.) "Without a doubt, there is no religion wherever there is an image. For religion consists of divine things, and there is nothing divine except in heavenly things. So it follows that images are without religion. For there can be nothing heavenly in something that is made from the earth." (Lactantius, c. 304-313 AD)
"It has been sufficiently shown...how vain it is to form images." (Arnobius, c. 305 AD)
"Rape of the Soul"
http://www.rapeofthesoul.com
Would the RCC be in this predicament(imbedded things within the artworks) - as the article contends - if they had long ago decided not to put such an apparent emphasis on so-called sacred art and sacred images?
One wonders...
Graven images...
I think that anytime you have artists working or being commissioned, you will find artists subverting the message of their own pieces, which no one is supposed to notice.
Embedded imagery really doesn't "work" in terms of making people do things against their will, which is why it's not used to sell Keebler cookies.
Should I burn Grandma's photo?
This thread should bring out all the right thinking Christians to tell us how evil the Church is.
Care to elaborate?
I mean that there is a strong contingent on FR that I think would be happy to see Catholics treated the way the the Afghans are treating that Christian convert.
Anti-Catholicism seems to be one of the most common themes on FR lately.
“On Jan. 22, 1998, when [Pope Benedict XVI] was still a cardinal and the grand Inquisitor (yes!) of the Roman Catholic Church, he declared that their archives (4,500 large volumes) indicate a death toll of 25 million killed by the Catholic Church for being ‘heretics.’ And likely two-thirds of the original volumes are lost….”
Nothing like blood libel to get the boys in the white sheets all excited.
>>This thread should bring out all the right thinking Christians to tell us how evil the Church is<<
Amen!!!!
And I bet they are the same ones that see the big M in "The Last Supper"
Or maybe the OP is Martin Sheen.
>>“On Jan. 22, 1998, when [Pope Benedict XVI] was still a cardinal and the grand Inquisitor (yes!) of the Roman Catholic Church, he declared that their archives (4,500 large volumes) indicate a death toll of 25 million killed by the Catholic Church for being ‘heretics.’ And likely two-thirds of the original volumes are lost….” <<
WOWOWOWOW!
Guess who's off my bookmarks.
>>Nothing like blood libel to get the boys in the white sheets all excited.<<
I forgot that the KKK was Anti-Catholic! Bet those that come onto the Catholic threads and beat on us are real proud to be of like mind with them.
That was an editorial? Do you have a link? I can see it being some ignorant person's post, but I didn't think things had gotten that bad over there so soon. Thanks for bringing it to our notice.
As for your "image" thesis, it's absolute nonsense. This stuff is propagated by the deliberately obtuse or willfully mischievous.
Do you perhaps have a photo in your wallet of a spouse or a parent or a child? What is the purpose of that photo? Is it to supplant and take the place of the real thing? Or is it a reminder of that loved one and to make him or her more present to you? Is your wife jealous of the photo which you keep of her in your wallet? The very idea is laughable, isn't it?
Even in the secular sphere, we build statues of men who've accomplished what we consider to be great things. The Lincoln Memorial sits in pride of place up there in DC, for example. The dollar bill has Washington's face on it. And so on.
It's no different in the spiritual sphere. Jesus was a man. He walked this earth. As did his Blessed Mother and the Apostles. We remember them with love in their images.
Ironically of course, the things which truly turn us away from God are not built of plaster or glass. They're in our heart. Materialism, avarice, jealousy, love of money, lust, fornication etc etc.
It pains me to have to write this stuff, it's so self-evident but there may be someone wandering through this thread who is helped by it.
Hmmmmm. I wonder what Dr. Freud would think about Mr. Calace's ability to discern these images?
Movie Review
"Rape of the Soul": Seeking to dispel the cigar theory
"Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar," Sigmund Freud once noted.
But the creators of a new documentary, "Rape of the Soul," see phalluses everywhere — especially in religious paintings, even one that was revered by St. Francis.
Michael A. Calace directed, wrote, produced and stars in the film. He spots subliminal sexual imagery hidden in other paintings, along with demonic trees, "morphed smirking devils" and a fire-breathing dragon that stands on Jesus' shoulder. Sometimes you see what he's talking about; much of the time you don't.
Unfortunately, he never justifies the creation of a 2-hour-and-20-minute movie on the subject.
The mixture of talking heads and still photographs quickly grows monotonous; only the paintings offer some visual relief. Calace's script may suggest the form of a mystery, but it comes across as a presumptuous sermon — filmed, according to narrator Robert Swan, "to heal the many that have suffered from such uninvited violation."
Along the way, Calace and others also discuss Nazi propaganda, predatory priests, child pornography, mass hypnosis, the suspect publications of the Oregon Catholic Press and "the scandals exposed by Silver Sword International" (Calace's production company).
— John Hartl, Special to The Seattle Times
Copyright © 2006 The Seattle Times Company
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