Posted on 01/15/2006 3:06:52 PM PST by SirLinksalot
I never claimed that. But I do claim that about Gideon, Lamech - the father of the most rigtheous man on earth (Noah), King David, Soloman etc.
And I also concur that, aside from Adam's sin, perhaps the most egregious sin ever, was Abraham's not waiting for God's promise and thus producing Ishmael...
David and Solomon (and likely Moses) sure did have more than one wife.
That has nothing to do with my question so is neither here nor there.
Pretty cool, huh??
Whoa! I thought you said the Bible does not give us any examples of good coming from polygamy.
That was not my statement.
I said that every polygamous situation in the Bible was fraught with pain, suffering, and sin (in Lamech's case ... faithlessness to God).
Here you have THE ONLY RIGHTEOUS MAN ON THE ENTIRE PLANET....and he came from a polygamous family.
Did you have some influence upon what family you were born into ?
How would Noah's righteousness reflect upon the rest of his family (who all perished faithlessly in the Flood) ?
Ps I think the best we can say about polygamy from the scriptures is that it's an acceptable option that must be handled with EXTREME care and wisdom.
Do you realize that noone in the Bible ... handled this situation wisely ?
Do you think yourself capable of something ... that not even the great patriarchs could manage ?
Does it occur to you ... that there are no Biblical examples of polygamy ... after the coming of Christ ?
I didn't say that YOU said that but the author.
Gotcha!
Sorry for the confusion...
"In EVERY situation where polygamy took place in the Bible... nothing good has come from it..."
Then I point out that THE ONLY RIGHTEOUS PERSON ON THE PLANET had come from a polygamous family.
So, how does she respond???
Uhhh....W-W-what about the New Testament??
LOL!!!
Ps Isn't there some sort of mercy rule that needs to be enforced at this point?? lol!
What exactly ... is your point ?
Are you at all interested in being a standup christian ... or do your interests run another way ?
True, she was found to be utterly and completely wrong when, in a futile attempt to denounce polygamy from the scriptures, she proclaimed 'nothing good comes from polygamy.'
But, let's face it, she's in good company.
After all, didn't one of the DISCIPLES ask....
"Nazareth! Can anything good come from there?
LOL!!!
LoveDoc,
I couldn't help but notice your reply to yourself.
;)
I'll accpet your "kindness".
Have a great day too!
"Isn't it amazing how Biblically ignorant people are on FR?"
Actually no. I've noticed for a couple years now what I call sloppy Christianity. Verses are quoted that do not fit the situation. A general lack of understanding of what the verse says and means. And worse, not caring that they're wrong. I think that somebody must show them their error or they will keep repeating it. Maybe they won't change at all in their thinking but at least I tried to do the bidding of God. What happens after that is God's business. And He's an awesomely wonderful God.
Love Doc
Ps Otherwise....they'd change it.
One of their oft-repeated mantras, that NOTHING good came out of polygamy, was shown to be a myth with the discovery that the MOST RIGTHEOUS MAN ON EARTH (at the time), Noah, was born and raised in a polygamous family!
Wow, huh?
This shows of course that these men-haters didn't really do much original research. They simply regugitated what their leaders had told them who most likely were referring to only the lives of David and Soloman when making their bogus claims.
But, I dug a little deeper and boy was I shocked!
Not only was the wisest man in the world (Soloman) born into a polygamous family, but also the most righteous man.
But get this, one of the great Old Testament Prophets was as well.
Can you guys guess who?
None other than the Godly Samuel who had a couple books named after him and is considered a major prophet.
You know, I figure when two of the Books of the Word are actually NAMED after you, it means you are walking in some tall cotton, huh?
His Godly Mom was Hannah who was part of a loving polygamous family ( albeit with some of the jealousy you might imagine expect when only two wives are involved.)
So guys...
Want to raise up a MAJOR prophet?
The wisest man in the world
How about having son known as not just the most rigtheous, but the ONLY righteous?
Want to be named in the pantheon of Biblical heroes that included David, Gideon, Soloman, Noah, Samuel etc?
It's simple.
Have a bunch of wives...
Ps I'm still researching this topic. Given all the AMAZING things I discovered so far, one can just imagine what more GROUNDBREAKING truths I'm likely to unearth going forward.
Good thing I didn't let the feminists shape my theology on this topic, but dug into the Word of God for answers myself, huh?
If you've read this thread, you know that polygamists have been subjected to a non-stop disinformation campaign in freerepublic generated primarily by smug church-ladies, smarmy man-haters and silly pseudo-theologians.
One of their oft-repeated mantras, that NOTHING good came out of polygamy, was shown to be a myth with the discovery that the MOST RIGTHEOUS MAN ON EARTH (at the time), Noah, was born and raised in a polygamous family!
And all of that polygamous family (save monogamous Noah)... perished in the flood.
I would make an educated guess here ... that Noah righteousness had nothing to do with his faithless family ... nor the wisdom of Solomon (which was a gift from God) ... nor the faithfulness of Samuel (whose mother gave him over to be raised by the priest Eli as soon as he was able to be weaned from her).
Wow, huh?
Wow indeed!
This shows of course that these men-haters didn't really do much original research. They simply regugitated what their leaders had told them who most likely were referring to only the lives of David and Soloman when making their bogus claims.
Your rhetoric betrays your true nature.
Noone who truly searches after truth has any need to slander those who hold differing opinions.
You come across like a used-car salesman ... all flash ... and no substance.
I'd suggest that you do a honest study of the comprehensive message of the scriptures, ... rather than just mine the scriptures for evidence which, supposedly, supports your position.
If you think that Christ's purpose was (in any way) connected to allowing you (or anyone else) to marry more than one wife ... you haven't really dug deep enough.
I guess it's good to see there are at least TWO people who consider polygamy a topic worthy of discussion.
I'm cool with that although I'm happy to give you a heads up that this will be a VERY hot topic in times to come.
I'm usually way ahead of the curve, so it doesn't surprise me that there's not a tremendous amount of interest in dissecting the scriptures regarding this issue at present.
It's probably for the good anyway as liberals (who are morally bankrupt) think polygamy is so way out there, that if they heard a conservative like myself say the scriptures do not condemn it, they might try to use this against us.
With that as a preamble, let's dig into the latest post from the always charming, but invariably incorrect Quester...
Quester says: "I would make an educated guess here ... Noah's righteousness had nothing to do with his faithless family ... nor the wisdom of Solomon (which was a gift from God) ... nor the faithfulness of Samuel (whose mother gave him over to be raised by the priest Eli as soon as he was able to be weaned from her)"
Oops! Quester forgot to disrespect Gideon. That's ok, Quester's whole point is well...besides the point...anyway.
Quester and others had UNEQUIVOCALLY DECLARED that NOTHING good came from polygamy.
I countered by searching the scriptures (or at least it's latter day counterpart - biblegateway.com lol!) and finding that claim to be totally BOGUS.
Point for LoveDoc. No point for the man-hating crowd.
BTW, before I forget, when I call the enemies of polygamy 'Man-Hating' that's just shorthand.
Their full title should be 'People-who-Hate-it-when-Man-gets-to-have-sex-with-more- than-one-woman-in-a-scripturally-legitimized-way.'
So, I guess they should be called Hate-Man., but that sounds harsh so I reversed and shortened it to Man-Haters. I hope these folks appreciate my graciousness in this manner.
Quester says: "Your rhetoric betrays your true nature. Noone who truly searches after truth has any need to slander those who hold differing opinions. You come across like a used-car salesman ... all flash ... and no substance"
Let's see now...'no one who searched truth has to slander...YOU are like a used-car salesman."
Is that what we call self-contradiction or self-revelation?
LOL!!
Quester continues: "I'd suggest that you do a honest study of the comprehensive message of the scriptures, ... rather than just mine the scriptures for evidence which, supposedly, supports your position."
Let me translate that for you folks - By 'honest study' of the scriptures, Quester means one that comes up with the same conclusions as ....er...Quester! lol!
And, if she is accusing me of 'mining the scriptures for evidence'...than I plead guilty!
I guess she just doesn't like where the evidence leads us, huh?
Quester wraps it up with this: "If you think that Christ's purpose was (in any way) connected to allowing you (or anyone else) to marry more than one wife ... you haven't really dug deep enough."
Translation: I, Quester have utterly failed to refute any of the SCRIPTURAL points made by LoveDoc, therefore I will falsely accuse him of not 'honestly' studying the scriptures and not really digging 'deep enough.' Finally, I will play the ultimate trump card. Christ-guilt. I will rely on hundreds of years of religious and church tradition to try and cloud any clear insights from the Word of God. Kind of like people do when they say God doesn't want you to be healed of financially prosper.
Memo to Quester: It didn't work then...
...and it won't work now.
Love,
LoveDoc
Quester says: "I would make an educated guess here ... Noah's righteousness had nothing to do with his faithless family ... nor the wisdom of Solomon (which was a gift from God) ... nor the faithfulness of Samuel (whose mother gave him over to be raised by the priest Eli as soon as he was able to be weaned from her)"
Oops! Quester forgot to disrespect Gideon. That's ok, Quester's whole point is well ... besides the point ... anyway.
How is what I have cited here ... disrespect to anyone ?
I have simply stated Biblical fact. That's what happens when one honestly searches the scriptures.
Quester and others had UNEQUIVOCALLY DECLARED that NOTHING good came from polygamy.
Once again ... that was not my declaration.
God can bring good from any situation ... for those who love Him.
Quester says: "Your rhetoric betrays your true nature. Noone who truly searches after truth has any need to slander those who hold differing opinions. You come across like a used-car salesman ... all flash ... and no substance"
Let's see now...'no one who searched truth has to slander...YOU are like a used-car salesman."
Is that what we call self-contradiction or self-revelation?
I didn't say that I judged you to be like a car-salesman (if you consider that a judgement) ... I said that you are coming across like a used-car salesman.
You, OTOH, ... have judged your opponents as man-haters.
I asked you before ... I shall ask you again ... what is your point ?
Your zeal indicates that you are not quite as disinterested ... as you once claimed to be.
Are you a christian ?
Are you at all interested in the teachings of Christ ?
... (not as put forth by any religion) ... but, as they are presented in the scriptures ?
If so ... then perhaps further discussion is warranted.
If not, ... then I am glad that our government is, to a degree at least ... based on Christian values.
Quester is at it again!
And quite frankly, I couldn't be happier.
I have postulated a simple truth: The Bible does not condemn polygamy. Never has. Still doesn't.
That's not to say that it endorses polygamy.
Or that it would be wrong for a society to outlaw it.
Simply, like capital punishment, the Bible allows for societies to provide their imprimatur on polygamy.
Some people will tell you the Bible argues against capital punishment. They'd be wrong. Others tell you the Bible argues against polygamy. Wrong again.
A society has the freedom to enact whatever laws it sees fit regarding these issues.
Currently the US has a mixed policy on capital punishment. Some states allow it; some don't. But it has been ruled constitutional.
Currently the US bans polygamy. But those laws, and this is why this issue is SO important, have been rendered unconstitutional by Lawrence v Texas. Note: This does not mean that all the bigamists have to be let out of jail. They were found guilty of having TWO marriage licenses to TWO different people.
Polygamy will never and should never be legal in the sense that you would be able to get as many marriage licenses for as many partners as you want.
That privilege should remain only for one man and one woman.
But, if someone wants to get married to several women 'in the eyes of God' he is not prohibited from doing so by the scriptures and no longer is by any constitutionally backed law in the country.
BTW, I used capital punishment as an example not because it has any analogous relationship to polygamy (so save the 'one wife is bad enough; 2 would be like capital punishment jokes :) but because it's a perfect issue to illustrate what's wrong with the theology of the opponents of polygamy.
Now we come to my good friend quester who called me a used car salesman and then denied it.
That's OK. I think good friendships, like ours, can withstand a few cheap shot insults now and then. Even if the one electing them refuses to own up.
Here's quester's latest questions:
Are you a Christian ?
Are you at all interested in the teachings of Christ ?
Obviously I am Quester. The real question is...
....are you?
Love,
LoveDoc
Ps If you are, then you'll surely rejoice with me that God's Word has the answers to the question of whether or not polygamy is repudiated or allowed for non-elders.
Ps If you are (a christian), then you'll surely rejoice with me that God's Word has the answers to the question of whether or not polygamy is repudiated or allowed for non-elders.
Indeed I do.
I have never denied that God doesn't explicitly disallow polygamy.
I have, rather, argued that the scriptures show that polygamy is not a particularly expedient choice.
And after all, ... as christians we chould interested in those things which are expedient and edifying (i.e. further the cause of Christ).1 Corinthians 10:23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.
It's that polygamy is not disallowed by the scriptures.
No more; No less.
If we agree on that...
...then we agree.
LoveDoc
Ps Let evey man work out his own salvation with fear and trembling...
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