Posted on 01/04/2006 9:39:06 AM PST by SirLinksalot
Let me ask you this: If one is born a Semitic Jew, at what point is he/she expected to embrace the religion before he/she is classified as not really a Jew? And why is it that so many Jews still consider them Jews?
Oh...and, how far off pure, traditional Judaism can the fellow/gal get before they are no longer considered a Jew?
Im not poking fun at your question, only showing you the openness of it. You are asking a question not only about religion, but about cultural and ethnic values as well. If a man is born in Zimbabwe, but moves to Ireland because he associates himself with Irish culture, listens to Celtic music, dances Celtic dances, and thoroughly enjoys a pint of Guinness, does where he was born make him less Irish? Perhaps in the eyes of some Irish, but it does not diminish what he believes he is. So too it is with religion.
If I was born Jewish and found that Buddhism brought me greater spiritual harmony and happiness, would the religion of my parents make me less of a Buddhist? Would my family no longer consider me a Jew? Quite possibly. Would my synagogue consider me a Jew? Probably not. Would Orthodox Jews consider me a Jew? Absolutely not. However I think the more important questions are these: Would I consider myself a Jew and would G-d care if I spent my life living by the creed that I should treat another as I wishes to be treated in turn? Only the individual can answer the first question, the second must wait until judgement. . .
Obviously it depends on "in whose eyes," but then with that in mind, your first post's point has weakened.
The religious angle is easy to understand because it is the same way with Christians. Not all who call themselves Christians are the genuine article. But with Jews, you can be a god-hating liberal nutcase and still call yourself a Jew. As long as your mother was a Jew, you're a Jew. Or at least that's how some people see it.
Explaining Jews, Part II: Why are most Jews secular?
By Dennis Prager
Jan 24, 2006
To understand Jews, one must understand that most Jews are not religious.
This is true even if our definition of "religious" is minimal, i.e., observant of any specifically Jewish religious laws, attends synagogue once a month or even declares a belief in God.
According to a 2003 Harris Poll, "Only 16 percent of Jews go to synagogue once a month or more often"; and regarding belief in God: "Protestants (90 percent) are more likely than Roman Catholics (79 percent) and much more likely than Jews (48 percent) to believe in God. Religious affiliation here includes many people raised as members of a religion or religious group, regardless of what they practice or believe now."
Why most contemporary Jews are irreligious, given that the Jews gave the world the Bible and introduced humanity to the God of monotheism, is a fascinating subject. It is also a vital subject given the role that secular Jews -- such as Marx, Freud and Einstein -- have played in forming the modern world.
One reason was traditional (Orthodox) Judaism's inability to keep most Jews religious once Jews were free to leave the ghettos and shtetls (small Jewish towns or villages throughout Eastern Europe) in which most Jews lived.
The only Jewish religious alternative was a new Jewish movement called Reform Judaism, begun in Germany in the beginning of the 19th century. But with all the good intentions of Reform's founders to stem the departure of Jews from Judaism, Reform retained little that was distinctively Jewish. It dropped kashrut (the Jewish dietary laws), Hebrew as the language of worship, Jewish peoplehood, opposed the return of Jews to Israel (Zionism), and allowed moving the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday.
By the mid-19th century, some Jews broke away from Reform and founded Conservative Judaism, in order to "conserve" Jewish religiosity without being Orthodox.
While Reform and Conservatism appealed to many Jews, a deeply religious, God-centered alternative to Orthodoxy that can keep Jews religious has not yet arisen.
And why did most Jews reject Orthodoxy? Over the course of thousands of years, a combination of anti-Semitism and Orthodox Jewish law -- one of whose primary purposes was to keep Jews separated from the non-Jewish world -- kept Jews in isolation. And when any group has little or no interaction with other groups, its intellectual life begins to atrophy. This was not only true in Orthodox shtetls; it is a problem in much of the Islamic world today as well as in the secular liberal university.
Therefore, once Orthodoxy was exposed to the light of freedom, it had few rational or convincing responses to the modern world's challenges. Faced with the choice between science, Mozart, personal liberty and great literature on the one hand, and Orthodox isolation on the other, the choice for nearly all Jews was obvious.
And that brings us to a second reason for many Jews' irreligiosity. Jews decided that the secular world of the arts, the university and celebration of reason -- a world devoid of religion -- was the world for Jews to work for. Secular Jews are still believers in the Enlightenment (despite the anti-Semitism of Voltaire, the father of the Enlightenment, and despite the anti-Semitism of secular Europe).
Which brings us to the third reason. Along with their rejection of Jewish religiosity, Jews also feared and loathed their Christian neighbors' religiosity. European Jews had suffered for centuries from religion-based (especially European Christian) anti-Semitism. For example, Jews were tortured to death on a charge of "desecration of the host," which essentially meant being murdered for allegedly torturing a wafer. Christian anti-Semitism in Europe ensured that virtually no Jew would feel sympathetic to religion generally, let alone Christianity specifically. Therefore, when European culture began warring on Christianity, many Jews completely identified with the anti-religious warriors. Those warriors were the men of the Enlightenment, the self-righteous title the anti-Christians gave their movement.
Thus began the now centuries-old Jewish association of secularism and anti-religiosity (especially Christianity) with what most Jews deem is good for Jews. That America's Christians have founded the country that has provided the most blessed place in which Jews have ever lived -- and that many Christians are now the Jews' best friends in a world that has more anti-Semitism than at any time since the Holocaust -- has not changed many Jews' belief that the anti-religious, especially those trying to weaken Christianity's influence, are the Jews' natural allies.
A fourth reason for Jews' alienation is the huge percentage of Jews who attend university. A major aim of the university is to influence students toward secularism and away from the Judeo-Christian value system that America's values have largely been based on.
Fifth and finally, Jews have suffered a great deal throughout history, culminating in the Holocaust. This has further reinforced Jews' alienation from God and religion.
Given Jews' influence in America, itself the most influential society on Earth, their alienation from and hostility to religion and to Judeo-Christian values, the greatest value system ever devised and the one based on the Jews' own Bible, is a tragedy. But if this irreligiosity is to be undone, it must first be understood.
Dennis Prager is a radio talk show host, author, and contributing columnist for Townhall.com.
Copyright © 2006 Creators Syndicate, Inc. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Find this story at: http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/dennisprager/2006/01/24/183533.html
Incorrect. Jews would consider you a Jew. Orthodox Jews especially would. It's a matter a Jewish law, not a subjective opinion.
The exact situation you describe happens frequently in the Jewish community.
You ARE deeply mistaken and you are unwittingly perpetuating the disasterous myth manufactured by the Holocaust: that Jews are a race (as opposed to a people and a theology). Converts are held every bit equal to born Jews in Jewish tradition, dating back over 3,000 years, and their equal status in Jewish society is something that is upheld in countless traditional texts by many great rabbinic thinkers.
Do you realize that Ruth, the great-grandmother of King David, was a convert? And given that Christians believe the messiah is descended from the house of David, this basically means that the messiah comes/will come from a Jewish convert!
As a rabbinical student in a major Jewish denomination (and a Jew who just so happens to have converted to get here), I would urge you (and any Christian) to think twice before trying to define Jewish "reality" for the Jewish people. Christianity is built on an entire foundation of interpreting Judaism through a non-Jewish lens, and if you really want to understand Judaism, you need to study/read/learn from Jews. If you don't consider converts "real Jews," this is simply because you have failed to properly educate yourself about our tradition and beliefs.
I never said converts were not treated well. I only said that those born Jewish had an edge of sorts.
I do resent the implication that my statement is in any way related to the ideas perpetuated during the Holocaust. What an awful accusation. Shame on you.
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