Luther and Erasmus: The Controversy Concerning the Bondage of the Will

Protestant Reformed Theological Journal ^ | April 1999 | Garrett J. Eriks

[blue-duncan]

"But why are we concerned with Satan in this case? My point was that every time humans reject God they commit evil"

I believe you said "Humans are authors of evil". The author of evil, if you can say that, was Lucifer/Satan. He was the tempter who caused Adam and Eve to sin and brought ruin to mankind. After the fall mankind could only sin until the Redeemer came.

[annalex]

Kolo mentioned [...] it would be best to leave Filioque out for now, even if the Latins believe otherwise, until the General Council can resolve this issue.

I think it is solomonic indeed. Clearly, the healing must start where the rift began, and so a reversion to the original Creed is logical. Then the Latin Chruch should make a theological case for the dual procession of the holy Ghost, and then a separate case needs to be made to incorporate it to the Creed.

It is possible that the dual procession will end up as a theological hypothesis, rather than defined dogma, even though I personally believe in it and think that Aquinas made a very strong case for it. Most likely, it should be carefully explained with the "through the Son" semantic, which would be consistent with the Damascene's root-branch-fruit image, but preserve the monarchy of the Father.

[kosta50]

If you are sorry, then repent of your error

I am sorry not because I made a mistake but because I see that you live in an illusion when you say that Portestants emulate Christ. If that is true, it's very well concealed.

[zeeba neighba]

He was what many of our conservative Christians would call a "pacifist."

Not really. (Matthew 10:34)

Heb 4:12

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

[kosta50]

Does Lucifer have the power to thwart God and cause Him to change His mind and alter His plans for creation?

Is that a real question???

[zeeba neighba]

Every born again believer understands that he must pick up his cross and follow Christ. This is a very personal decision and is lived out in the spiritual life of each believer. We are not like the pharisee who felt it necessary to stand and pray on the street corner. We are in fact, admonished by scripture, to pray in our closets.

[kosta50]

The Orthodox Church knows Church Militant (clergy and laity on earth) and Church Triumphant (in heaven, with Saints). The Orthodox also do not confuse the church building (brick and mortar to use Protestant temrinology), but often call the church building a temple.

Example: the largest Orthodox Church today is the Temple of Saint Sava in Belgrade, Serbia. Hagia Sophia would still be the largest were it not descecrated by the Ottomans and turned into a mosque. The Orthodox retained the owrd "temple" from Judaism to denote the actual building.

[kosta50]

[Protestantism] ...is a fast track to sainthood, unavailable to us

An old country Orthodox priest is rumored to have answered when asked what is salvation: "you just got a visa to go to America, and you are in a dinghy off the coast of France!"

[kosta50]

I believe you said "Humans are authors of evil". The author of evil, if you can say that, was Lucifer/Satan. He was the tempter who caused Adam and Eve to sin and brought ruin to mankind

Humans can say "no" to evil, but they don't. In doing that, they re-invent evil every time. Satan may have started it, but evil is rendered powerless unless we give in to it.

[kosta50]

(Matthew 10:34)...Heb 4:12

You must be joking! And what is His sword exactly? Whom did He kill with that sword? Did He profess that we should kill in His name?

Funny how you Protestants always pick just the right verse to suit your own little agenda.

Maybe you might want to read Matthew 5 for starters. Enjoy!

[kosta50]

We are not like the pharisee who felt it necessary to stand and pray on the street corner. We are in fact, admonished by scripture, to pray in our closets

Oh, I am glad! Just out of curiosity: if you don't stand, just how do you pray? Lying down, kneeling?

[zeeba neighba]

You need reading comprehension, as well as the gift of the Holy Spirit. Hebrews 4:12, which I gave you, tells you exactly what His sword is.

[kosta50]

[Lucifer] was the "tempter who caused Adam and Eve to sin and brought ruin to mankind

Actually, God in His mercy gave Adam every opportunity to repent and ask for forgiveness. The real sin of Adam is not that he and Eve were foled by the cunning Serpent, but that Adam blamed God for his sin. He could have repented but he chose not to.

[zeeba neighba]

I pray in the Spirit. And you? I suppose that I could pray like a zadik, like Elijah, but since I pray all day long, in every position, I really dont think it matters what shape my body is in, does it?

[kosta50]

I know what Heb 4:12 says, dear friend. You were disagreeing that Jesus was a "pacifist" by modern standards,and tose of militant Evagelicals. Not so. He clearly said "do not resist evil." But you are free to pick and choose those portions that suit your agenda...nothing new on that front.

[kosta50]

So why mock standing, then? Are you suggesting that standing is an "improper" posture while praying?

[zeeba neighba]

You are very confused. He is the very embodiment of Wisdom, and what is wisdom?but to eschew evil. You need to go and read the scriptures, since you don't seem to know them.

[kosta50]

Thank you, o Wise and All-knowing one!

PS You can step off your horse now, Mr Self Righteous. The show is over.

[P-Marlowe]

Jo, you are correct, but you are responding to P-Marlowe, who misrepresented what I said.

I did not misrepresent what you said. I quoted you exactly. You were the one who apparently misrepresented what you said. You were the one who had to issue the retraction. I merely commented on your statement, such as it was. Don't blame me whan you type something stupid.

[jo kus]

Does God giving man the ability to procreate (cooperate in creation) intrude on His sovereignty?

Yes

God doesn't GIVE us His Glory, He share it with us out of love! Just as Peter said, we will partake in the divine nature - and do already, in a sense. Again, you need to read what St. Augustine writes on secondary causes. We as creation do not take away God's glory, nor do we forget that He is the primary mover. However, He created us distinct from Himself, giving us the ability to be secondary causes in both the natural and spiritual realms. To deny that is to be separated from the Church Fathers that I have read.

Can you point to me a Church document that agrees with your claim? I don't find it in Carthage, Orange, or Trent.

Regards