Posted on 01/01/2006 4:48:03 PM PST by HarleyD
Communication? Interaction?
Again, you read waaay too much into Scripture and ignore its clear instruction. The only angel I'm aware of who "interacts" with men is Satan.
Thus, all communication needs to be directed to God alone who knows what we need before we ask for it.
Really? You must be mistaken temporarily, yes? I know you can think of several interactions/communications with angels in scripture.
Or maybe I'm misunderstanding your reply?
Why do you pray to angels?
We may "entertain angels unaware", so I do believe that, per God's instructions, they go about His business. We however, hae no influence or control over them. Can we ask God to send them to us for help? I believe so, absolutely yes.
RIGHT! There were TWO Catholic Churches that had Rome as its center! How silly of me!
This information you have is not bad, but it is incomplete and biased. CCEL is a fairly good site. But, for example:
"The same Irenaeus frankly opposed the Roman bishop Victor."
Your site doesn't say why, now, does it? Nor does it say that Irenaeus COMPLIED with the Bishop of Rome, does it? Pope Victor was a bit "authoritative" regarding the determinination of the date for Easter. Victor wanted it according to the date in the West, vs. those in the East. He threatened those who did not comply with excommunication. St. Irenaeus thought this went too far, that cooler heads should prevail. But he never questioned Victors RIGHT to do just that! By typing the above, this Protestant site covers up the fact that this complaint does not take away anything from the Papacy, but ADDS to its seen role during 180 AD!
Tertullian, though he continued essentially orthodox, contested various points with the catholic church from his later Montanistic position
Tertullian, unfortunately, became a heretic. It wasn't anything to do with the Pope's authority, but that Tertullian thought that church discipline should be more strict. The Church decided to weigh in on the side of leniency. Is it surprising that a heretic would later contend with the Church???
St. Cyprian, with whom biblical and catholic were almost interchangeable terms, protested earnestly against the Roman theory of the validity of heretical baptism
You need to learn more about history. Cyprian wanted all of those who recanted the faith during persecution to be either not allowed back into the Church, OR those who were in heretical sects, to be re-baptized by the Catholic Church. Pope Stephen denied this need to rebaptize. He utilized Scripture and Tradition to defend his stand. Cyprian was wrong, and later admitted it. This only further enhances the necessity of the Papacy in maintaining the teachings of the Apostolic Church. Such examples as this are scattered THROUGHOUT the Church's history.
Regards
I was discussing our lives now, regarding angels and intercessionary prayer. Certainly angels played a part in God's plan of creation; we've discussed the angel who appeared before Mary for days now on this thread.
But I do not believe angels visit us now. Now, we have Christ alone who is our Savior, Mediator and Redeemer.
Why do you pray to angels?
Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.
And yet isn't this just another way of saying God will help us? When we're in trouble and need comfort and strength, shouldn't it be the face of Christ we focus on, and not an angel?
I don't, this isn't what the discussion was about. The discussion was about whether saints were aware of us, Jesus saying "those in heaven" rejoice in our repentance, and in the discussion one interpretation was this meant angels only. I then asked about their view of angels awareness, so that was our discussion.
I can understand how the confusion arose, but the initial discussion was about praying to saints. I'd give a further review, but it's not that long ago, if someone wishes to know..
Ok. I knew I must have misunderstood.
You know I'd never really considered this before, oddly enough considering this discussion. But I will now. Thank you very much for your reply.
Yes, of course, but He uses angels sometimes to answer prayer. We are saying the same thing, basicly, but angels are created for purposes. So if I am driving in a snowstorm and about to go off a cliff, I pray to the Lord for help. From the bible, we know that Christ is the Master of Legions of angels that do His bidding. He can intervene personally or he can send an angel.
Yes, I think of that verse a lot. It's beautiful and reminds us not to judge too quickly.
Maybe the Apostle was cautioning us that none of us knows the names of the elect. If we had met the thief on the cross on Wednesday, we'd not have recognized him a week later. 8~)
This is a topic I'm not settled on. It's interesting. I even liked the movie, "City of Angels," in a dreamy kind of way.
But all this is beside the point as to whether or not we're supposed to pray to angels, saints and dead people. We're not.
Hey, we agree! I liked "City of Angels" too...
I've got to get out more...
The reason I was asking you two about the awareness of angels - in context of the saints in heaven - is that Jesus said we will be like angels.
So the question seemed to fit the initial question of "are the saints in heaven aware of us"...
Where is it in the bible that we should remain ignorant of the events of the Gospel for fear of miscast glory?
Ha!
Well, if you see City of Angels, you will have to suspend theological disbelief. But it's a good story...
Well angels are spirit creatures, and we will be spirit creatures, but because we will have gained heaven through the work of Jesus, we will be above the angels in glory.
All of your "events" aren't biblical though, that's the problem.
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