Posted on 12/17/2005 7:10:55 AM PST by NYer
Yes, I completely agree. Just sleepy and no more energy to type anything complex, sorry.
"And just as tools without the workmen and the workmen without tools are unable to do anything, just so neither is faith without the fulfillment of the commandments, nor the fulfillment of the commandments without faith able to renew and re-create us, nor make us new men from the old. But, whenever we do possess both within a heart free of doubt, then we shall become the Master's vessels, be made fit for the reception of the spiritual myrrh. Then, too, will He Who makes darkness His hiding-place renew us by the gift of the Holy Spirit and raise us up new instead of old, and part the veil of His darkness and carry our mind away and allow it to peek as through some narrow opening, and grant it to see Him, still somehow dimly, and one might look on the disk of the sun or moon. It is then that the mind is taught -- or, put better -- knows and is initiated, and is assumed that that truly in no other way does one arrive at even partial participation in the ineffable good things of God except by way of the heart's humility, unwavering faith, and the resolve of the whole soul to renounce all the world and everything in it, together with one's own will, in order to keep all of God's commandments." +Symeon the New Theologian
Fr. Cantallamessa's sermon seems perfectly Orthodox to me! :)
The thief that was crucified next to Christ led a life of crime yet was saved through his faith.
So you see, faith without works is not useless.
The headline is stupid. Get angry at the people who wrote the headline. In the body of the article Cantalamessa makes clear that faith must be active in works. He's opposing the view that works without grace or faith can save, which the Catholic Church has always taught. He's simply opposing Pelagianism. He affirms that faith without works is dead, by which he repudiates Lutheran or Reformed sola fide that denies any role at all to works. Those of you who attacked Fr. Cantalamessa owe him an apology. Attack the headline writer instead.
We have a "consensus" document on justification from about 7 or 8 years ago. It's a very tenuous consensus--both sides expressed reservations about the contortions they went through to reach wording that everyone could sign off on and the document has been rejected by the hardliners on both sides. It is a useful document but unfortunately reveals how deep the divisions still are.
I figure it must be a mistranslation. As the Church has always taught we are saved through Grace alone. And that both faith and works are a result of this grace. As far as I know the Church has never said we are saved by faith alone.
"Nothing in Scripture authorizes you to use insulting epithets."
Throughout history many have called for a form of expression meant to hide the truth. In contemporary society we might call it the "Rodney King" mentality.
Christ did not come to bring peace but the sword.
If the terms are insulting to you perhaps you should seek to understand what these "epithets" are meant to expose.
I will continue to use the Biblically authorized Jeremiad form as discretion dictates.
Nothing new here.
Father Cantalamessa is one of my favorite writers. I've been working on his "Come, Creator Spirit" at about a page a day for weeks. There's so much depth that I'm having trouble taking it in, even at that pace.
He spoke at our Eucharistic Conference this fall - has a cute beard and a darling Italian accent.
Sounds like he is a good Calvinist to me. If you all don't want him, he can swim the Rhone.
No, he is quite right. But the Catholic faith is that the two cannot be separated; There is no Faith vs. Works dichotomy; the two go hand in hand. If the Faith does not produce Works, it is not true Faith; if Works are performed without Faith, no good may come from them.
Frauds!13"I've had it with you! You're hopeless, you religion scholars, you Pharisees! Frauds! Your lives are roadblocks to God's kingdom. You refuse to enter, and won't let anyone else in either.
15"You're hopeless, you religion scholars and Pharisees! Frauds! You go halfway around the world to make a convert, but once you get him you make him into a replica of yourselves, double-damned.
16"You're hopeless! What arrogant stupidity! You say, "If someone makes a promise with his fingers crossed, that's nothing; but if he swears with his hand on the Bible, that's serious.' 17What ignorance! Does the leather on the Bible carry more weight than the skin on your hands? 18And what about this piece of trivia: "If you shake hands on a promise, that's nothing; but if you raise your hand that God is your witness, that's serious'? 19What ridiculous hairsplitting! What difference does it make whether you shake hands or raise hands? 20-22A promise is a promise. What difference does it make if you make your promise inside or outside a house of worship? A promise is a promise. God is present, watching and holding you to account regardless.
23"You're hopeless, you religion scholars and Pharisees! Frauds! You keep meticulous account books, tithing on every nickel and dime you get, but on the meat of God's Law, things like fairness and compassion and commitment--the absolute basics!-you carelessly take it or leave it. Careful bookkeeping is commendable, but the basics are required. 24Do you have any idea how silly you look, writing a life story that's wrong from start to finish, nitpicking over commas and semicolons?
25"You're hopeless, you religion scholars and Pharisees! Frauds! You burnish the surface of your cups and bowls so they sparkle in the sun, while the insides are maggoty with your greed and gluttony. 26Stupid Pharisee! Scour the insides, and then the gleaming surface will mean something.
27"You're hopeless, you religion scholars and Pharisees! Frauds! You're like manicured grave plots, grass clipped and the flowers bright, but six feet down it's all rotting bones and worm-eaten flesh. 28People look at you and think you're saints, but beneath the skin you're total frauds.
29"You're hopeless, you religion scholars and Pharisees! Frauds! You build granite tombs for your prophets and marble monuments for your saints. 30And you say that if you had lived in the days of your ancestors, no blood would have been on your hands. 31You protest too much! You're cut from the same cloth as those murderers, 32and daily add to the death count.
33"Snakes! Reptilian sneaks! Do you think you can worm your way out of this? Never have to pay the piper? 34It's on account of people like you that I send prophets and wise guides and scholars generation after generation--and generation after generation you treat them like dirt, greeting them with lynch mobs, hounding them with abuse.
**There's more to it than simply believing - there's the doing part of it as well.**
The problem is people not believing on Jesus as the scripture says to. After all, He did bring this 'new and living way'.
Jesus said (John 7:38,39), "He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water." (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
Jesus said, "if I go not away the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you." John 16:7
Jesus commanded one to be born again, or what? Or one will not see the kingdom of God. He said, "The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou HEAREST the SOUND thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is EVERY ONE that is born of the Spirit." John 3:8
So many have a conviction (pricked) of their heart upon receiving the 'Christ died for you' message, and are told that is their new birth, by messengers that have only gone that far themselves. And the process is repeated over and over.
But when Peter preached the 'Christ died for you' message, souls were under conviction ('pricked in their heart'), and they "said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, men and brethern, what shall we do?" Acts 2:37
"Then Peter said unto them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call." Acts 2:37,38
Peter also witnessed, that the Holy Ghost is given by God, 'to them that obey him'. Acts 5:32
The blind leader says to the convicted souls something like: "Just believe in Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved" (using one verse from the 'keeper of the prison' story in Acts 16, not mentioning the next 3 verses where those battered and beaten preachers 'spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house', and baptized 'he and all his, straightway').
The blind leader will also go to Romans 10 and preach verse 9 (..confess.. believe... and thou shalt be saved), when the epistle of Romans (as were all the epistles) written to church people that were already born again (...to the saints at...; ...to those sanctified at...; etc.) that had already 'obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered' unto them (Rom. 6:17).
Every one mentioned in the 'heroes of faith' chapter (Heb. 11) were called to faith,......and obeyed. If they had rejected, even saying "Lord, you are my God, but call some one else for your will to be done", they would have not been found faithful, to say the least.
Being called to salvation is God's grace to mankind, but man must come on God's terms. Any good works done by man are simply to be expected as normal to the 'new creature' in Christ. (but don't let works deceive, for I have a co-worker that is helpful to a fault, but is an atheist, having swallowed the evolution lie).
Peace to you all
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