ENGLAND: Church Society blasts Griswold and ARCIC over Mary

Virtue OnLine ^ | October 17, 2005

[sionnsar]

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Sigh. The Elizabethan Compromise remains ever such to this day with Anglo-Catholic pitted squarely against Evangelical, Evangelical against Anglo-Catholic, with the immoderates carrying the day. I was raised on one side of the aisle, today I am on the other, but I am sick and tired of seeing our people "Lured by the loudest throat" (as Kipling put it).

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Speak the truth in love. Eph 4:15

[AnAmericanMother]

She is the most holy of mortals, not through her own merit, but through God's grace, so that she could be a fit mother for God and the new Ark of the Covenant.

Stop and think about it for a moment . . . she carried God for nine months in her body, and raised him from a baby until he began his ministry.

[LibreOuMort]

Mary is considered the pattern for all christians to emulate - she said "YES" to God in a way that allowed the total invasion of her body, the total subjugation of her will to the Divine will. Form that point on, her life was literally not her own anymore. Likewise, anyone who would be a christ folower must needs follow the Christbearer (I have no greek font - but it is rendered "Theotokos." We, as Christians are called to be Christbearers in our own right - we bear his imprint - the pattern of godliness - (He is called the FirstFruits of all creation). Yes, Mary is special - and she is holy (set apart for God's purposes - not her own). Amen?

[Kolokotronis]

"Ok...I really do not mean to sound offensive and do not really want to Stir sh@t. I am curious though, how is mary the all holy one, I never got that."

That's not an offensive question at all. One of the earliest of the Fathers, +Ignatius of Antioch, +Peter's successor as bishop there and by tradition the child who sat on Christ's knee, wrote this in a letter in the first century:

"If it is made possible, I intend to come to you in order to see the faithful gathered in Jerusalem, and especially the Mother of Jesus: they say of her that she is honorable, affable, and arouses wonder in all, and all wish to see her. But who would not wish to see the Virgin and to converse with her who bore the true God? ...With us she is glorified as the Mother of God and the Virgin full of grace and virtue. They say of her that she is joyful in troubles and persecutions, does not grieve in poverty and want, and not only does not get angry with those who offend her but does good to them still more... All who see her are delighted."

In the second century, +Ireneus of Lyons wrote:

"The knot of Eve's disobedience was loosed through the obedience of Mary; for what Eve, a virgin, bound by her unbelief, that Mary, a virgin, unloosed by her faith!"

By the 300s, the holy Father +Ephraim the Syrian was writing:

"Come, let us wonder at the virgin most pure, wondrous in herself, unique in creation, she gave birth, yet knew no man; her pure soul with wonder was filled, daily her mind gave praise in joy at the twofold wonder: her virginity preserved, her child most dear. Blessed is He who shone forth from her!"

By 431, The Church at the Third Ecumenical Council declared her the Theotokos, the God Bearer, the Mother of God.

As you can see, there was, and as is evidenced by what you have read on FR when this topic comes up, is, a 2000+ year old tradition within The Church that Mary is All Holy. It is, as we say, what The Church always and everywhere has believed...including the bishops who established the canon of the NT.

[AnAmericanMother]

"If it is made possible, I intend to come to you in order to see the faithful gathered in Jerusalem, and especially the Mother of Jesus: they say of her that she is honorable, affable, and arouses wonder in all, and all wish to see her. But who would not wish to see the Virgin and to converse with her who bore the true God? ...With us she is glorified as the Mother of God and the Virgin full of grace and virtue. They say of her that she is joyful in troubles and persecutions, does not grieve in poverty and want, and not only does not get angry with those who offend her but does good to them still more... All who see her are delighted."

How splendid! What a wonderful report . . . of course it's what we all knew must be true, but how good it is to read it.

Our priest specifically invoked St. Ignatius on Sunday - I think his feast day is today.

[Kolokotronis]

We all have to be more aware of the writings of The Fathers. For us in The Church, +Ignatius of Antioch, +Ireneus of Lyons, +Ephraim the Syrian and all the other Fathers and saints are with us, more real than we perceive, as we attend our Divine Liturgies. On the "Eighth Day", they are transmitting their Faith to us, not 2000 years ago, but in the present Eternity we enter in the Liturgy.

[Xenophon450]

Well thank you all for the most expiedient replies, and very courteous at that. Would you all say that Mary was one of a kind? Well I mean the most holy mortal. Sorry for backtracking I just want to be sure.

[AnAmericanMother]

Well, I have a copy of the Philokalia and I diligently read in it every week.

Since I was raised Episcopalian, I have had to find my way to the Fathers on my own. I got more of them in my Classics courses in college than I ever did in Sunday School.

But I did take the parallel course for parents when my daughter was going through Catholic confirmation classes (boy was she sore - she just got through being confirmed in the ECUSA and then had to do it all over again). Our permanent deacon is a VERY learned man and we had a great time romping amongst the writings of the early church.

[Kolokotronis]

"Would you all say that Mary was one of a kind? Well I mean the most holy mortal. Sorry for backtracking I just want to be sure."

The Theotokos was definitely one of a kind and aside from Christ, true God and True Man, also the most holy of all mankind.

[Xenophon450]

Thank you then. That is all.

[Kolokotronis]

"Likewise, anyone who would be a christ folower must needs follow the Christbearer (I have no greek font - but it is rendered "Theotokos."

Oh, L o M, you don't want to say that! "Christ Bearer" is Christotokos,(Cristotokos) which is the expression of the Nestorian heresy. Theotokos (Qeotokos)means "God Bearer" in accordance with the declaration of the 3rd Ecumenical Council.

[Maeve]

These evangelical C of E types don't even understand how ridiculous their arguments are. But they always know 2 things, if it is Catholic, hate it, and if it is promotes Mary, denounce it.

[Cincinnatus]

They can Yak Yak Yak all they want. We've still got THIS.

[samiam1972]

I hadn't seen that book yet. Thanks for posting the link! Looks wonderful, something I may have to add to my gift list this season! ;o)

[lastchance]

Thanks for the passages. I wondered about the claim of the letter's authors that the writings of the Early Church do not show any of the later Marian doctrines. It is clear that the authors do not understand the idea of the development of doctrine. It is obvious that Mary has been honored from the beginning days of the Church.

[Kolokotronis]

"In 1950 Pope Pius XII announced the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary into Heaven—some seven years before Stalin’s Sputnik program put a Soviet into space. Do you think this was an accident? Oh, you are SO naïve….”

Go to get that book!

[Talking_Mouse]

LOL that is great!. Thank you so much for the link.

[PetroniusMaximus]

*** Odd how fingers always point towards the "Roman Church", whereas no one ever speaks of the Orthodox Church***

Aren't Orthodox and Roman views of Mary somewhat dissimilar?

[PetroniusMaximus]

***Why doesn't the Bible mention the Trinity clearly?***

You mean other than when it says...

Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

[PetroniusMaximus]

*** Stop and think about it for a moment . . . she carried God for nine months in her body, and raised him from a baby until he began his ministry.***


It is an awesome thing - even more so in light of the following...

"While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him. Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.

But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?

And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother."