Posted on 09/19/2005 9:13:46 AM PDT by xzins
False dichotomy. The third option is that God is in control of His creation, but has allowed Satan to play the role of the usurper over the earth for His own purposes until the Day of Judgment. Thus Yeshua calls him the "prince of this age/world" and Sha'ul, never one to be outdone, actually calls him the "god of this age/word."
Of course, Satan doesn't have free reign. He had to ask permission to test both Job and Kefa (Peter), for example. Further, in this age of the Kingdom, Yeshua has given us authority to bind him and trample over all his works. However, he still has great power to blind the unsaved, to create counterfeit signs and wonders, and even to interfere with the angels of God on their rounds.
Since the Adversary had to ask permission to test even Job and Peter, before the Cross, there is no Biblical evidence that he is any more bound now than then. Certainly, there is no evidence, Biblical or otherwise, that he is bound in the Abyss, which as we learn from Yeshua's encounter with Legion, is a place even demons fear to go. The day will come in which he is completely sealed away from the world and the Messiah reigns bodily and directly over it--but that day hasn't come yet. Until then, just as the Adversary boasted to Yeshua (and notice that the Lord didn't correct him), "All [the kingdoms of the world have] . . . been delivered to me. And I give it to whomever I will."
A monarch has the authority to move about.
Assuming you believe that Jesus has a body, why wouldn't He?
After all, He did meet Paul on the Damascus Road.
Yeah, it's really annoying when preterists interpret Scripture by Josephus.
***m constantly amazed at those who can wave aside centuries of historic testimony & evidence just so their modern theory can have a chance to breathe....even if only on a respirator.***
Well, as a Calvinist, who traces his theology to the birth of the Reformation and beyond to the very Garden in Eden, who doesn't engage in speculative nonsense about the nature of Christ, but remains fully faithful to the historic creeds, you have no idea how ironically funny I have found your comments and this discourse.
I have seen gnostic thought. I have seen Mormon theology spouted by non-Mormons. I have seen what strongly suggests a denial of the incarnation.
And, you owe me a new keyboard and a mocha-breve (sp) for your statement to me.
Gen. 3:22 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."
Access to the tree of life is what would have allowed Adam to live forever. Without that access, he eventually died physically (even though he died spiritually in that day, 900+ years before he physically expired.)
As opposed to interpreting Scripture by The New York Times...
Yep, I agree with you, which is why I take great pains not to reference AD 70. I just use the scriptures, esp. the Olivet Discourse, when Jesus said ALL these things would be fulfilled with the destruction of the temple.
http://christcovenant.ipbhost.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=342&view=findpost&p=1920
In any case, my statement to you simply had to do with the dating of Revelation the book.
BTW, anyone who'd put moche in perfectly good coffee should be condemned to Folger's Flavors for the remainder of their bornd days.
Did Jesus bodily resurrect or not?
Is there a body out there or isn't there?
Is that what you consider gnostic????
So, you think there's scripture that ABSOLUTELY PROVES that Revelation was written before 70 AD and that the Lord returned in 70 AD.
Lay this irrefutable assemblage of ONLY scripture on me. I'm breathless in anticipation.
Lay this irrefutable assemblage of ONLY scripture on me. I'm breathless in anticipation.
Never used the terms "ABSOLUTELY PROVES" or "irrefutable". I'm not that arrogant.
For me, in my studies, the preterist view of eschatology make the most sense scripturally. Is it without problems? No. But in my studies, I have found it to be the most consistent with the totality of the scriptures. Your experience is obviously otherwise. Good for you!
Buggman – “False dichotomy. The third option is that God is in control of His creation, but has allowed Satan to play the role of the usurper over the earth for His own purposes until the Day of Judgment.”
So let me see if I understand these “options” correctly:
2) God is in control of His creation and He has allowed Satan to blind the eyes of those very people who He [God] is trying to save; and
3) Satan is running amok.
Did I capture all the options? Do you see a problem with Door #2?
You forgot Carol Merrill over at Door Number 4: That Satan was bound and that the evil and sin in men's hearts (Matt. 15:19) are the cause of the problems we see today.
If you are a full preterist, wouldn't that be: Satan is currently in the Lake of Fire?
Oops, yes, me bad. Was bound first, then thrown into the Lake of Fire.
Thnaks for clearing that up. Shows I still make mistakes, even though we full preterists are inerrent in our theology! lol
Inerrent, no!
It does kinda blow the snot out of your door #4. LOL!
Anyway, back to your troubling the saints.
I KNEW I should have been suspicious when I picked up that "Monty Hall Study Bible" at the used JW bookstore!
"Let's Make A Deal": I won't use the Door # 4 analogy any more, exp. since I know there were only three doors.
Inerrantly Yours... :o)
From one who disagrees:
"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -- John 16:33
If the Holy Spirit resides in us, and Christ has overcome the world, so much so that we should have peace and not worry even in the face of adversity, how can you presume one speck of Satan is not under the complete control of the God who created him?
Fear of anything but God is not fruitful.
Without resorting to Zorastrian dualism, yes you did, and no, I see no problems with door #2 at all, except in your emphasis on Satan's ability to blind over God's ability to open eyes. That's why even we "Arminians" believe that there must be prevenient grace--that is, the Spirit must convict them of their sin, God's righteousness, and the coming judgment--for a person to be saved.
Except that He said no such thing.
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