Posted on 07/27/2005 1:05:40 PM PDT by GF.Regis
Wasn't the simple mass developed as a battlefield expedient in medieval Europe? You can't do a high mass at dawn before a battle out in the woods. You are sending men to their deaths and they want to be shriven and take communion...which for many will amount to viaticum.
Do the Greeks and Russians not have comparable traditions?
You are approaching my words from a different angle. However, I should probably rephrase myself so that I do not come across in the way you perceived.
"Let us offer...." is an innovation, or at least, after 400+ years of NO kissies, huggies, or whatever, ...now, suddenly, this is important?
A smile will suffice.
Even the most lit-wonk poofter activist in the US, Rembert Weakland, stated that the "sign of peace" is in the wrong place--it should occur at the BEGINNING of the Mass.
But to put a twist on the song: If Rembert's for it, WE can be against it, without fear...
That may be the case, but Low Mass came to be the Mass of convenience (time saving) in order to shuffle people in and out of churches every Sunday. A very unfortunate side effect.
Low Mass can be and has been refitted to be more liturgically rich in the form of the Dialogue Mass (DM). Unfortunately, the DM was not given enough time to develop (1958 - 1965). Participation at Mass was making good progress within the context of the Tridentine Mass until the changes abruptly ended this.
You are pressing the point into somewhat dangerous territory.
NOW you are telling me (in effect) that I do not obey the commandments of the Lord because I WON'T SHAKE HANDS?
Time for your med-check, froggie.
Perhaps you'd share your qualifications to pronounce on matters of music?
See my post above (187)
This should be fun.
I'm not so sure about that. Every priest that I have spoken to on this subject has shared how profoundly they accept their ministry of the Sacrament of Reconciliation. I could never characterize their attitude towards it as something they "can't stand." Of course, I usually am able to talk to the good priests. One shared with me that if he could, he would spend all of his time saying Mass, ministring to the needy, and hearing confessions, leaving all the "administrivia" to the Deacons. :-)
In WWII before Vatican II, priests had a small suitcase with an altarstone, stole, chalice, paten, crucifix and lectionary in it and said thousands of Masses on the hoods of Jeeps throughout the South pacific.>>>
Like Father Emil Kapaun, namesake for our East side Catholic high school here in Wichita! (Kapaun Mt. Carmel) He is called affectionally around here as a "shepherd in combat boots". I hope that he is declared a saint soon.
I read something recently about this pope condemning, nicely,
foi gras. I thought it was very well-said.
I'm saying that you should exchange a "Sign of Peace" in some way (handshake, smile, whatever.... Purposely standing a pew away from someone at Mass, just so you do not have to greet them, seems to me to be doing the exact of what Christ would do or commanded.
I haven't spoken to many priests on this exact subject but two, who were good priests, have told me that the reason why most parishes have such limited hours for confession is that their colleagues find confession extremely tiring and boring.
They themselves were of a different opinion and provided far more confession time.
But I took them at their word, because very few parishes offer more than one or two hours a week for confession and often at inconvenient hours.
One parish I attended had confession from noon to one on Fridays.
How can the average working father or husband confess regularly with such a schedule?
Lose the guitars, flutes and drums, boys!
Death to the "folk music" mass!!!!
My parish has at least 40 "musicians" who participate in mass each week................
I guess they're going to have to go back to using their envelopes.....................>>>>>>
You know I just really have to object to the guitar being depicted somehow as intrinsically evil, I suppose because of the onslaught of rock n' roll on our culture, a lot of it good, but a whole lot of it bad.
In our church, the guitar is used a lot, but not in a folksy style at all. Its just another instrument no better or worse than the pipe organ or piano in its use to praise the Lord in song at Mass. I honestly don't understand this being part of any list of desired reforms. It just doesn't rank up there for me in any way like the shameful liturgical abuses occuring in too many churches.... like my parent's church in Ft. Worth that have the tabernacle in a little room BEHIND THE ALTAR, not even visible to ANYONE in the church. I guess I'm just so rebellious when I enter the church and genuflect anyway, after my mom told me why no one else does this. (I am pretty ashamed that I didn't notice that there was no tabernacle on the altar, that I only noticed the lack of the genuflecting practice in this church.) I have to say I just don't get it. Why, oh why do they put Our Lord in a little closet?
Originally monasteries would only have enough priests to serve the needs of the community, the rest of the monks remaining lay brothers. In time, however, it became popular for any of the monks who were literate to be ordained as a priest. This created a need for private Masses for these extra priests after the celebration of the communal Mass. Remember that in the West concelebration was lost until Vatican II.
The other cause was the increasing desire among the laity for Votive Masses. Because of this it became common for priests to say more than one Mass a day. Until relatively recently, however, only one parochial, or communal, Mass was allowed in any one church. These additional Votive Masses thus had to be celebrated as private Masses by the priests. (This distinction was latter reflected in the common practice before the council to have only one High Mass and the other Masses being Low Masses.)
Without a congregation or choir, and being celebrated in proximity to other private Masses in the same church, it became the practice for the priests to recite what was sung at the communal convential or parochial Mass. Unfortunately the Low Mass became more familiar to the priests and was seen as the norm with the Solemn Mass as something extraordinary and reserved for special occasions. One of the correct things that Vatican II try to do was to reverse this thinking. Unfortunately this effort was not understood and failed. Hopefully with the Reform of the Reform we will see some progress in restoring the sung Mass as the norm.
"Perhaps you'd share your qualifications to pronounce on matters of music?"
Of course!
If I like it, the music is good.
If I dislike it, the music is bad.
In the particular instance, I like the music of Eagle's Wings.
Therefore it is good.
Hopefully with the Reform of the Reform we will see some progress in restoring the sung Mass as the norm.>>>>
I don't mean to be flip, but some priests don't sing too well, and I'm not sure my sufferings should include this. LOL
Interesting stuff there. Medieval. Love it.
"The Low Mass derived out of the celebration of private Masses, a practice that can be traced back to the Patristic period."
Eh wha?????
Seems to me that you're constructing moral laws from rather thin gruel.
But just to make you feel better about me, I DO smile, now and then, selectively, at certain people--like my wife and children.
Now and then, a stranger--just so I can maintain the adjective "Christian"--you know, for show.
Generally speaking the Church has been VERY leery of instruments which emphasize "beat" in a piece of music. Typically, guitars are used in that fashion, although not always.
EG, a 12-string guitar playing the JSBach underlay of the popular "Ave Maria" can be stunning, reverent, and art.
OTOH, the "rhythm" guitar approach, obviously, is not desirable under most circumstances.
As an aside, Ratzinger has written with cautious approval of "genuine" folk music--not the 'manufactured' folk music--as a possible hymn-tune basis. It is also used as basis for some well-known polyphonic Latin Masses.
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