Posted on 07/27/2005 1:05:40 PM PDT by GF.Regis
"He is no longer in unison with the congregation - he is facing the opposite direction from everyone else."
Not as I see it.
As I see it, the consecrated Host is God, and the priest and everyone else are oriented towards God by facing God and holding up God. It's a circle, not a rectangle, but the orientation is all the same way: towards the center of the circle, where God is.
I can see either way as full of theological meaning and symbolism, and do not really think that one way is more theologically correct than the other.
I do agree that one way is more traditional than the other, and I would say that for those who find especially deep meaning in the form of the Mass practiced before the 1960s there should certainly be Masses done that way. I can't see any particularly good reason not to bring the important things home to people in the way they are best prepared to receive it.
116 Cf. St. Hippolytus, Trad. Ap. 21:SCh 11,80-95.
Hebrew, Greek and Old Slavonic are old languages, to be sure.
But they were street languages back at the time of the formation of their respective churches. Greek, Hebrew and Old Slavonic were also used, in their day, to blaspheme and to negotiate porneia.
I dont thing old = sacred.
Nothing wrong with old, but it seems to me that old = old, and sacred is what's said and meant, not which linguistic vehicle is used.
That's very odd because I have not experienced anything like that. The Sign of Peace at my Parish's Mass is never anything like that. It is a very cordial, but brief, acknowledgement of who your neighbor is (according to local customs a handshake).
I'm sorry I assumed you were Roman Catholic because you were on this thread commenting on the reforms.
"CCC 1301 The sign of peace that concludes the rite of the sacrament signifies and demonstrates ecclesial communion with the bishop and with all the faithful.116"
I do not see in this rubric you quote a requirement that the faithful shake hands. In fact, I do not even see from this a requirement that the celebrant tell them to do squat. Formerly, at least in the Latin ritual, the Pax was exchanged at the altar and this seems consistent with the rubric you have quoted.
FYI, if one were to attend an Orthodox liturgy, one would find that during the communion of the priest, the laity kiss all of the icons in the temple. And just before they receive Holy Communion, each communicant will bow to the entire congregation. This seems perfectly satisfactory, more dignified, and much less intrusive that the current Latin practice.
But if you want to go about shaking hands with people, go for it. Don't let me stop you.
Uhhhnnnhhh--the purpose of Mass attendance is to worship God.
Why bother attending Mass to worship God if you (not you personally) will not even follow Christ's specific commandment ("I give you a new commandment: love one another. As I have loved you, so you also should love one another. This is how all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.")?
A simple handshake or acknowlegement of your "neighbor" at Mass is suficient.
"'Eagles' Wings,' musically, is another 2-step 'soft rock' piece. The genre is useful for slow dances and hotel lobby pianists, especially if they are near the hotel bar."
I do not find it so.
Actually, I find that it is quite a bit more difficult to sing well than the other usual three-notes-up/three-notes-down church fare, because it goes through quite a range, and has interesting changes between the verses.
Anyway, I think all we're talking about here is matters of taste: you don't like the musical score. I do.
Nobody can argue that the text of the song is not sacred: it's the 91st Psalm.
So it comes down to a matter of what one thinks of the music.
De gustibus non disputandem.
I will continue to extend my hand of friendship toward my neighbor.
"I will continue to extend my hand of friendship toward my neighbor."
Yeh. Though "Pull my finger" is probably still out?
"'I will continue to extend my hand of friendship toward my neighbor.' Yeh. Though 'Pull my finger' is probably still out"
ROFL
"'I will continue to extend my hand of friendship toward my neighbor.' Yeh. Though 'Pull my finger' is probably still out"
"ROFL"
(Well, except maybe at low, low Mass.)
It doesn't. It is what ever the person and or customs dictate. It is up to the individual to extend the gesture or not. That is why I say that if you are Roman Catholic and do not extend some simple of "Sign of Peace" to you neighbors in the pews, maybe you need to examine why you are at Mass in the first place if you are not serious about following Christ's commandment to us to love one another...
;)
Still ROFL
"(Well, except maybe at low, low Mass.)"
Fortunately, the "low Mass" is unheard of in the Orthodox Church. I'm curious to know its derivation. Some say it came into being in Ireland during the years of the Cromwellian persecution of the Roman Catholics.
Ooooo too hot to handle! "That is why I say that if you are Roman Catholic and do not extend some simple of "Sign of Peace" to you neighbors in the pews, maybe you need to examine why you are at Mass in the first place if you are not serious about following Christ's commandment to us to love one another..."
LOL I'm not RC and I will not even go near that remark.
************
I must confess I agree with you.
Actually, Low Mass dates back earlier than the 16th. Century. Not exactly sure when, though.
I agree with you. I think Low Mass, in hindsight, should never have been invented. The true, normative form of the Mass is the Solemn High Mass. Hence, there is no such thing as a "reduced" liturgy in the Eastern Rites/Orthodox. Liturgical minimalism has bred the "Low Mass Mentality" and this mentality was damaging both pre and post V2, just manifested in different ways.
Whatever restorations or future reforms are to be done, they need to go a long way to eradicate a liturgically minimalist mentality among the faithful.
Yeh. Though "Pull my finger" is probably still out?
**************
LOL!!
"I agree with you. I think Low Mass, in hindsight, should never have been invented."
Hhhhhm. Do you perceive a possible contradiction here with the way things should work within the Church? What did our Lord say?
Mat 16:18 "...I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
Jhn 16:13 "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth:..."
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