Posted on 07/27/2005 1:05:40 PM PDT by GF.Regis
"St. Peter would have loved the Jews, but I think he had more important, manly things on his mind than depressed women and their problems."
St. Peter was a Jew.
However, in his day, the Jewish establishment railroaded his Savior to his death and outright murdered his Savior's brother, James. The Jewish establishment murdered the disciple, Stephen, and sent Saul of the Sanhedrin to find as many Christians as he could, try them and have them beaten and put to death.
I am afraid that in Peter's day, the Jewish establishment was the established religion, and dealt with early Christians as brutally as the Christians dealth with others later in the Spanish Inquisition or European witch trials.
Of course Peter would have nevertheless loved the Jews, and everyone else.
At any rate, he's still alive and can hear you and answer you, if you will take the trouble to talk to him.
"Like my ex-husband, the church is better off without me. You can all say 'good riddance.'"
No, the Church is not better off without you.
And you are not better off without the Church.
You've taken some bad knocks.
Don't slap away the hand from the hereafter which is the only one likely to truly give you sympathy.
Men are stupid and mean, but the angels are wise, and dead sainted men are wiser than the living.
Repose your trust on the living, and it will all fall down.
Repose your trust on the eternal, and you will not ultimately be let down.
You said you wanted to talk to Peter.
So talk to him. He'll talk back too.
Don't take my word for it, do it.
You'll see.
I will concede that the facing the people is appropriate at certain times of the Mass. Those would be the didactic (readings, etc.) parts of the Mass, while the core of the Sacrifice (Offertory through Communion), all should face in unison towards the "mystic" East.
Those who brought us Mass facing the people had an agenda contrary to Tradition and tradition. That is a verifiable fact. This whole argument is not about how one feels comfortable or not with changes, it's about what is objectively and historically and liturgically correct - and that is Mass ad Orientem. The other posters here have already made this point.
A side note...
The present practice of having the priest not be at the altar during the Liturgy of the Word arose out of the rubric in the Tridentine Pontifical Masses, where bishops would say the first part of Mass from a Throne or Faldstool off to the side. What was an exception for a special liturgy became the norm for everything (as is the case with many changes).
What makes a language sacred?
The Last Supper was indeed a Mass. It was the anticipated sacrifice that would happen on Good Friday.
As to the issue of which way Jesus faced...it wouldn't matter simply for the fact that He is God, and so He could face whatever He wants. This kind of questioning sort of reduces to speaking about Christ in purely human terms, which when carried to its logical conclusion, gives rise to those who seek only the "historical Jesus" - aka Arianism.
So, since the current rite of the Church does not do things in the old way anymore, but uses the new way, is the Mass valid?
That would really be the bottom line, wouldn't it?
I'm sorry you feel that way.
That is the central bottom line (the consecration is valid as long as the priest does what the Church sets in stone). However, reverence is a virtue often lost today. People are often too concerned about holding hands, banging the bongos, and "looking pretty" to be concerned about reverence at Mass.
It did not.
The question of validity is not at stake here. Yes, it's valid. I even attend the Novus Ordo on rare occasions when I absolutely have to in order to fulfill my Sunday obligation. But to reduce the matter of liturgy to validity is a very minimalistic way to approach the issue.
Bread and water are valid food, but no exactly nourishing enough over the course of time.
Oh Gosh there is SO much nonesense this fellow spouts, where to begin?
Have you looked at the Indult option? These are Masses that are said in rare numbers in dioceses in the Traditional Latin Rite. Also, there are plenty of independant chapels that offer the Traditional Sacraments nationwide.
You can find indult Masses here, and a list of all Traditional Masses here.
God Bless you!
"A hefty working text has already been prepared for official consideration, and some sections have sporadically leaked to the Vatican press -- enough to suggest that Benedict XVI has no intention of mellowing from the hardrock conservative positions he held in his previous position as Prefect for the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, a Vatican office tracing its pedigree directly back to the Inquisition."
SAINT Peter. There are some men by that name who didn't live up to the honor floating around somewhere awaiting final judgment. It would be my luck to get the wrong one. I'll ask God in the name of Jesus Christ if He would ask St. Peter to give me a few minutes of his time if he isn't too busy with something else. The ball is in the heavenly court now. I won't ask for a sign.
I hope God will provide a translator, if one is necessary :).
Thank you for your assistance.
Ask, and you shall receive.
But you have to ask.
later read/pingout?
God Bless you for caring and for your kindness.
I'd like to extend my apologies to Regis for the above quote. It should read, "Poor Mr. Hanchette...." In my haste to post, I inserted the poster of the article's name rather than the author's name. My apologies.
And thanks, Regis, for the article. I don't know why, but for some reason, when I see the libs this upset, it just tends to brighten my day a little -as if I can rest assured things are going right in the world. -)
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