A Call For Change

The Buffalo News ^ | 03/12/05 | Paula Voell

[Pyro7480]

And behold a leper came and adored him, saying: Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean. And Jesus stretching forth his hand, touched him, saying: I will, be thou made clean. And forthwith his leprosy was cleansed. And Jesus saith to him: See thou tell no man: but go, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift which Moses commanded for a testimony unto them. -Matthew 8: 2-4

Why did Jesus command the healed leper to see the priest? Jesus had healed him, due to his faith. If you apply your point of view to this situation, the leper didn't need to see the priest.

[american colleen]

Then why oh why, do Catholics feel the need to speak to a Priest to repent for their sins.

John 20:21-23 (KJV)
21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

I think this teaching must have died out with the Apostles?

[ComplexUnion182]

The only way to repent for sins is to ask for gods forgiveness. No where in the bible does it speak of saying Hail Mary's for forgiveness. Find me the verse that does and as of today I'm a devout Catholic.
As far as the topic of discussion, don't be such a baby.

[american colleen]

I know, he tells us all the time on his loving website with the nice pictures.

[ComplexUnion182]

haha, that was a ridiculous post. Just because the passage has priest in it does not mean that the leper was going to repent for his sins to the priest. He was giving the testimony of the healing he had just received. Still no proof. Post away.

[jrny]

You show your ignorance of Catholicism quite clearly. It is a waste of my time to even answer you. I wish the rest here would have just ignored you too.

Anyone for bringing this post back on subject?

[jrny]

You show your ignorance of Catholicism quite clearly. It is a waste of my time to even answer you. I wish the rest here would have just ignored you too.

Anyone for bringing this post back on subject?

[Pyro7480]

The only way to repent for sins is to ask for gods forgiveness. No where in the bible does it speak of saying Hail Mary's for forgiveness. Find me the verse that does and as of today I'm a devout Catholic.

This post above shows your complete misunderstanding of the Sacrament of Confession. A Catholic doesn't say the Hail Mary for forgiveness. A priest may impose a penace of saying that prayer a few times after Confession. This is part of repairing the offense against God because of sin, since sin consists of a twofold evil: the guilt due to sin, and the offense against God. The obligation to repair the offense against God is a debt of sorts that we incur. That is why a penace is imposed.

[Pyro7480]

haha, that was a ridiculous post. Just because the passage has priest in it does not mean that the leper was going to repent for his sins to the priest.

You mock like a Pharisee. The point of my Scriptural citation wasn't to say that the healed leper went to the priest for the purpose of repenting. He already did that to Jesus. I cited that passage because it demonstrates the institution of the sacrament, that and the passage from John that american colleen cited.

[ComplexUnion182]

You show your ignorance of the bible. But please, lets bring this post back on subject. I do have a question though, when Jesus was baptized was he spritzed in the river or completely submerged? Just a question.

[Mark in the Old South]

Re: "As far as th eunuchs go, find me the exact verse in the bible and I'll stand corrected."

Ask and you shall receive

Matthew 19:12
12 For there are eunuchs, who were born so from their mother's womb: and there are eunuchs, who were made so by men: and there are eunuchs, who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven. He that can take, let him take it.

You sir stand corrected. The above is the Catholic Doughy-Rheims but it is in the King James Bible as well.

Re: "I never said there wasn't corruption in all churches, but it seems most predominant in the Catholic organization."

In the United States the Episcopalian Church has less than 3 million members while the Roman Catholic Church is over 60 million. The Southern Baptist is the largest Protestant denomination with only 10 million. A matter of scale can be misleading. My fellow Catholics sometimes bristle at the coverage Big Media gives to the Church. In part I agree with them Big Media has it out for the RCC but to some degree a little more coverage is to be expected due to the size of the Church next to any other flavor of Christianity. The Church also has a higher standard to live up to as well. Right now the fight in the Catholic Church is to be expected. I believe it was predicted in the Bible because the Catholic Church is the one that matters. The Protestant Churches were predicted as well but they are the rebellion of Core (or Korah if you prefer).

Re: "Then why oh why, do Catholics feel the need to speak to a Priest to repent for their sins."

Christ instituted the Holy Sacrament of Penance (AKA Confession) Read what Christ said during the Last Supper. The whole foot washing section has real relevance to Confession. Also when he talked about bounds released on earth will be released in heaven and bounds retained on earth will be retained in heaven. We are all bound by the slavery of sin. We are released with baptism but get rebound with our inability to resist sin. Confession refreshes our soul. By the way a confession not accompanied by a contrite heart and without a intention to resist sin is not effective, per Church teaching. The notion the saying of a few prayers is what cleans of of our sins is a common Protestant misunderstanding of Catholic teaching.

[Mark in the Old South]

Re: "Please, just read your bible and you will see the many contradictions the Catholic faith hides behind."

I have in fact it was that very thing that converted me to the Catholic Faith. I was Episcopalian and searched many denominations, I was desperate of a Church I could believe was correct so in lou of membership in a Church I read the Bible everyday for several hours. I kept running across passages that made me think, the Catholics teach that. I assure I was not going, humm the Lutherans or the Methodist teach this or that. I could no longer deny what seemed so clear almost every day.

Re: "Let me ask you this, have you been baptized, or spritzed?"

Baptized and in a manner with good authority. There is first and second century art (in the catacombs made during the persecutions) that depicts Baptism and never is a head dunking depicted. There is also the Didiche, a small Catechism written around 100 AD, possibly when the Apostle John was still alive to refute it if necessary. It goes into greater detail about Baptism and advises a cool water steam (called living water) immersion (do not confuse with submersion) and pouring water over the head three times. It also permits water from a basin but pouring the water over the head is required every time.

[Mark in the Old South]

Re: "You still won't answer the baptizm question though. Submerged or sprinkled."

I only just read your question bud. Check out my response in my most recent post.

[ComplexUnion182]

Then you would say that Catholics follow the teachings of the bible more? I grew up in a Catholic church for awhile, but mainly Baptist. It seems to me that the church that I went to follows the book more than any other I've been to, Baptist, Catholic, Mormon. My intent in this forum wasn't to be so rude, I tend to get on those streaks. I'm sorry for that. Now I seem to be a bit interested.

[Mark in the Old South]

Re: "It seems to me that the church that I went to follows the book more than any other I've been to, Baptist, Catholic, Mormon."

The way you composed the sentence above it is difficult to figure which church you say follows the Book more than any other. Is it Catholic or Baptist? I'm not sure I can rule out Mormon.

[NYer]

The Buffalo New .. /sigh/

Lakeland said that a majority of church-going Catholics approve the ordination of women. "So, you can draw your own conclusions," he said. "Either the pope isn't teaching properly or is not teaching the proper thing."

What utter garbage! So many of the protestants coming into the Catholic Church have cited "priestly ordination of women" and "homosexuality" amongst their reasons for migrating to Rome.

Dr. Doug Grandon, a former Episcopal clergyman and Evangelical Free was the guest of Marcus Grodi last night on EWTN's The Journey Home. He entered the Catholic Church at Easter 2003 and now serves as Director for Catechetics in the RC Diocese of Peoria, IL. He made a very astute comment on the program. Dr. Grandon noted that while the Catholic Church has problems (citing examples like Lakeland), a lapsed catholic who returns will find the church doctrines remain intact. This, he said, is not true in the protestant denominations which have spread themselves slim, breaking into thousands of denominations, because they lack central leadership. A lapsed protestant will return to find a very different denomination from the one he left. Their doctrines shift with the times, whereas the Catholic Church stands solidly on her teachings.

He believes he is called to re-catechize 2 generations of catholics who did not receive the proper teaching from the CCC, as well as the present generation. Please keep him in your prayers! He is a man on a mission of restoring authentic teaching to those who have slipped away.

Dr. Grandon is a very articulate speaker. You can hear his story at the folllowing link:

REAL AUDIO LINK

[NYer]

I would be concerned. According to the article: "Paul F. Lakeland, who was interviewed by phone from Fairfield University in Connecticut, where he is professor of Catholic Studies." He is teaching young Catholics and his books receive awards.

Puhlease!!! Give credit where credit is due! jrny got it right. The younger catholics, who still practice their faith, feel robbed of their ancient traditions and roots.

Professor Lakeland is a 'has been'; a self-proclaimed 'authority' on catholic laity. Even my nearly 19 year old daughter would see through his charade in an instant. He would become a 'barf alert' on campus.

Professor Lakeland is from my generation, a gray-haired, aging hippie who still entertains aspirations that the Holy Father discarded long ago. It won't happen in this generation or the next. The pendulum has swung and the young catholics are demanding authentic teaching, not this drivel served up by a misplaced, overpaid, professor at some elitist college.

[DBeers]

Lakeland said that a majority of church-going Catholics approve the ordination of women. "So, you can draw your own conclusions," he said. "Either the pope isn't teaching properly or is not teaching the proper thing."

OR that Lakeland is a heretic that should be excommunicated.

[DBeers]

Oh you catholics, there's just to many of you. This debate is eternal. We'll know when we die now won't we. I think though that the understanding of eunuchs is a bit off. But your are definetly the one true church. Lol, You still won't answer the baptizm question though. Submerged or sprinkled.

LOL -are you for real? Let me suggest that in addition to being a recent member of FR you are lacking knowledege regarding the Sacrament of Baptism -there is no or -in fact there is an and in addition to both submerged and sprinkled being authentically acceptable.