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Document lists 28 grave abuses against Eucharist
Catholic News Service ^ | April 23, 2004 | Jerry Filteau

Posted on 04/24/2004 7:32:21 AM PDT by Desdemona

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To: sinkspur
Well, I am at two masses on Sundays. One where I'm actually attending, that one I am praying. The next with my CCD group. There, I get parents waving at me. Some coming back from communion. It's not really funny.
21 posted on 04/24/2004 4:27:29 PM PDT by netmilsmom (Laz, where are you? Are you ok?)
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To: sinkspur
Well, I don't happen to think that the vast majority of Catholics who attend Mass every week are mortal sinners.
Catholics should certainly avail themselves of the Sacrament of Reconciliation, but it's highly doubtful that 20 million church-going Catholics are in a state of eternal enmity with God.

And apparently you don't see any problems with people receiving Communion without Confession. I guess sin is whatever you think it is.

I for one, don't buy the idea that when I go to Mass and literally *everyone* receives Communion, that they're all eligible to.
22 posted on 04/24/2004 6:01:25 PM PDT by Conservative til I die
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To: sinkspur
Maximilian thinks so too, so you have at least one who agrees with you.

You're the one who's totally in the wrong here, and you're supposed to be a Deacon, too.

I've found your viewpoint seems to increasingly be about "We need to make things easier on everybody to make the Church better." That's taking the modernist route. If you feel that 2000 years of Church teaching on who and who cannot receive Eucharist then well, there's nothing really left to say, is there?
23 posted on 04/24/2004 6:04:11 PM PDT by Conservative til I die
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To: sinkspur
Appropriate for today???

I am sure you are familiar with the following:

A portion of Saint Leonard of Port Maurice's sermon on going to hell.

A must read. For the complete sermon click on

http://www.thekolbegroup.org/thelittlenumberofthosewhoaresaved.html

"It is not vain curiosity but salutary precaution to proclaim from the height of the pulpit certain truths which serve wonderfully to contain the indolence of libertines, who are always talking about the mercy of God and about how easy it is to convert, who live plunged in all sorts of sins and are soundly sleeping on the road to hell. To disillusion them and waken them from their torpor, today let us examine this great question: Is the number of Christians who are saved greater than the number of Christians who are damned?"…

… "Pious souls, you may leave; this sermon is not for you. Its sole purpose is to contain the pride of libertines who cast the holy fear of God out of their heart and join forces with the devil. You are horror-struck at going to hell? Well then, cast yourself at the feet of Jesus Christ and say to Him, with tearful eyes and contrite heart: "Lord, I confess that up till now I have not lived as a Christian.

I am not worthy to be numbered among Your elect. I recognize that I deserve to be damned; but Your mercy is great and, full of confidence in Your grace, I say to You that I want to save my soul, even if I have to sacrifice my fortune, my honor, my very life, as long as I am saved. If I have been unfaithful up to now, I repent, I deplore, I detest my infidelity, I ask You humbly to forgive me for it. Forgive me, good Jesus, and strengthen me also, that I may be saved. I ask You not for wealth, honor or prosperity; I ask you for one thing only, to save my soul."

24 posted on 04/24/2004 6:21:32 PM PDT by franky (Pray for the souls of the faithful departed. Pray for our own souls to receive the grace of a happy)
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To: sinkspur
It is very disturbing when at Mass the young man in front of you is chewing gum through the Mass and goes to communion with the same gum in mouth

It is also disturbing when a man and woman in the first row are whispering in each others ear while the Offertory is being said and the go to communion.

It is disturbing when on Easter morning you cannot get a seat in Church or Christmas while the rest of the year there are plenty of seats. And the whole congregation goes to communion.

No one knows who has mortal sin on their souls but just the percentage of Saturday penance candidates compared to the percentage of communicants on Saturday eve and Sunday Masses just does not come close to any balance at all.

10 go to confession and 600 receive. Come on!
25 posted on 04/24/2004 6:38:30 PM PDT by franky (Pray for the souls of the faithful departed. Pray for our own souls to receive the grace of a happy)
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To: franky
Franky, all a priest or bishop can do is tell people who are conscious of serious sin to go to confession.

Even the new document says that no one should be denied the Eucharist unless they are prohibited by Church law. twice-a-year Catholics have been with the Church for a hundred years.

26 posted on 04/24/2004 7:15:40 PM PDT by sinkspur (Adopt a dog or a cat from an animal shelter! It will save one life, and may save two.)
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To: sinkspur
I call them Ground Hog Christians. They come out, see their shadows and go back in their holes for 6 months.
27 posted on 04/24/2004 7:19:41 PM PDT by drstevej
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To: Conservative til I die
If you feel that 2000 years of Church teaching on who and who cannot receive Eucharist then well, there's nothing really left to say, is there?

Speaking of nothing to say, what does this sentence mean?

28 posted on 04/24/2004 7:19:56 PM PDT by sinkspur (Adopt a dog or a cat from an animal shelter! It will save one life, and may save two.)
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To: Conservative til I die
I for one, don't buy the idea that when I go to Mass and literally *everyone* receives Communion, that they're all eligible to.

What are you gonna do about it, short of making everyone sign an affidavit that they've been to confession within a time that you deem appropriate?

There is a lot of catechesis that needs to take place about the Sacrament of Reconciliation, but threats and brow beating are not going to bring one single soul back to the sacrament.

29 posted on 04/24/2004 7:22:25 PM PDT by sinkspur (Adopt a dog or a cat from an animal shelter! It will save one life, and may save two.)
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To: Desdemona
From John L. Allen's "Word from Rome" column of April 23, 2004:

Arinze’s appearance at the Vatican news conference was in conjunction with the publication of a long-awaited document on liturgical abuses. The document was rumored to bring a Roman hammer down on a number of practices that have become common in various parts of the world: inter-communion with Protestants, for example, or liturgical dance, or altar girls.

In the end, the hammer was something of a rubber mallet.

Titled Redemptionis sacramentum, the document’s tone is juridical and frequently critical of abuses “which obviously cannot be allowed and must cease.” At the same time, many liturgists around Rome breathed a sigh of relief April 23 because the document creates no new restrictions and/or bans, and even where it is obviously lukewarm about a given practice – altar girls, for example, or communion in the hand – the document tolerates it.

Redemptionis sacramentum, according to the experts, adds nothing to existing liturgical law.

“It’s a predictable document,” said Jesuit Fr. Keith Pecklers, who teaches liturgy at Rome’s Gregorian University. “It’s obviously a further attempt at tightening the reins, but it’s much less offensive or restrictive than had been rumored.”

Arinze denied that the document amounts to a Roman crackdown.

“We didn’t crackdown on anybody,” he told NCR. “Look, it’s like soccer – you have to have some rules. If you could just score from anywhere, fighting and tossing bottles would be the result. This is much more serious, because it’s not just a game, it’s our faith.”

At the same time, Arinze did not deny the disciplinary thrust.

“There’s a sense in which, if we didn’t crackdown, somebody should crackdown on us for not doing our duty,” he said.

Other key points in the document include:

• A ban on the use of unapproved texts and rites
• The absolute necessity of an ordained priest for the celebration of the liturgy
• Use of appropriate vessels and vestments
• A ban on using non-Biblical texts for the readings and responsorial psalms
• A ban on lay people giving homilies
• An insistence on using lay ministers of the Eucharist only when there is an insufficient number of priests to distribute communion
• Laity may not hand one another consecrated hosts or the chalice
• The Mass may not be divided, with different parts celebrated at different times
• Priests always have the right to celebrate the Mass in Latin, but according to the post-Vatican II rite
• The obligation of Sunday Mass cannot be satisfied with ecumenical services
• Insistence that communion must not be given to non-Catholics and non-Christians in violation of church rules.

Despite the clear emphasis on distinguishing priests and lay persons, Arinze insisted that the spirit of the document was upholding a correct understanding of the nature of the Mass. It is not, he said, a matter of “prejudices against the laity.”

Cardinal Julian Herranz, president of the Pontifical Council for the Interpretation of Legislative Texts, told reporters that the document originated in complaints about abuses that had arrived at the Vatican over the years from various parts of the world.

“At the origin of this document, as with the encyclical, was an action of the people of God in relation with the Holy See, who requested clarifications and made protests. There is a sensibility and a love of God, and people often suffer from the way in which the Lord is sometimes treated.”

Pecklers told NCR there are some clarifications that liturgists will welcome. He cited the clarification that the Eucharistic bread should not be broken in the moment of consecration, for example, or that priests should not improvise the Eucharistic prayers.

30 posted on 04/24/2004 7:38:04 PM PDT by sinkspur (Adopt a dog or a cat from an animal shelter! It will save one life, and may save two.)
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To: sinkspur
I agree that we should not be judging our fellow Christians and should be concerned rather with our own sins, more than with those of our neighbors.

Priests on the other hand are failing their congregation by not preaching on the sacrament of reconcilliation AT ALL.

Outside of Indult masses, FSSP Chapels, and just regular Catholic Churches that are considered very conservative, I have heard the sacrament of reconcilliation mentioned exactly once. I would just like to know what is going on? Are the pews suddenly packed with Saints? Am I to be thankful that I'm surrounded by a bunch of Saints @ mass on Sunday?

No I think not. Usually when I go to Confession here @ college or at home there is rarely a line or anyone in the box and sometimes the Priest will tell me that he hasn't seen anyone for the whole hour (because of class I usually have to go a couple of minutes before the Priest stops hearing confessions)

So I don't blame the people in Communion lines, I blame the Priests and the Deacons who are failing at their jobs of spreading the truth.

But then again what do I know, I'm just a College studnet.
31 posted on 04/24/2004 8:01:10 PM PDT by FBDinNJ
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To: FBDinNJ
We always preach at least one homily during Lent on the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Our penance services during Lent and Advent usually draw between 500-700 people.

There should certainly be more catechesis on all the Sacraments.

32 posted on 04/24/2004 8:04:12 PM PDT by sinkspur (Adopt a dog or a cat from an animal shelter! It will save one life, and may save two.)
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To: sinkspur
What is a "pennance service"?
33 posted on 04/24/2004 8:14:49 PM PDT by Romulus ("Behold, I make all things new")
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To: Romulus
What is a "pennance service"?

I fear it's the gross abuse of "general absolution", reserved for soldiers about to enter battle or others in extraordinary circumstances.

34 posted on 04/24/2004 8:22:27 PM PDT by Land of the Irish
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To: Romulus
Never heard of a penance service? If you attend an indult Mass, then you're likely not familiar with them.

Large group of priests, a formal service with prayers, examination of conscience, individual confession, then absolution by all the priests.

They're quite helpful, to a lot of people, and if you're not in a big hurry.

35 posted on 04/24/2004 8:22:54 PM PDT by sinkspur (Adopt a dog or a cat from an animal shelter! It will save one life, and may save two.)
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To: sinkspur
Does confession take place one-on-one, privately, as you imply? Then what does "absolution by all the priests" mean? Do the priest, acting collectively, pronounce absolution over the collective congregation? If so, how is this consistent with individual confession? Furthermore, if absolution is granted individually, what is the nature of the collective action, and what's its point?
36 posted on 04/24/2004 9:04:53 PM PDT by Romulus ("Behold, I make all things new")
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To: Romulus
Do the priest, acting collectively, pronounce absolution over the collective congregation? If so, how is this consistent with individual confession?

Absolution is pronounced over the collective congregation. The requirement for a valid sacrament is the individual confession of sins to a priest, and absolution, which may be individual or collective.

Furthermore, if absolution is granted individually, what is the nature of the collective action, and what's its point?

The Sacraments of Reconciliation (Confession and the Sacrament of the Sick) may be celebrated individually or in community. Ideally, a communitarian celebration affords an opportunity for catechesis as well as the general celebration.

37 posted on 04/24/2004 9:13:11 PM PDT by sinkspur (Adopt a dog or a cat from an animal shelter! It will save one life, and may save two.)
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To: sinkspur
There is no risk here. The smaller chalices are placed on the altar and wine is poured into them at the same time wine is poured into the primary chalice.

Where is the difficulty? The vessel that contained the wine (the flagon or pitcher) is then returned to the credence table.

No problem as far as I can see. No change to this instruction. Disobedience, maybe, but no change.
38 posted on 04/25/2004 9:22:33 AM PDT by lrslattery (Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam - http://slatts.blogspot.com)
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To: lrslattery
There is no risk here. The smaller chalices are placed on the altar and wine is poured into them at the same time wine is poured into the primary chalice.

This was the one change I noticed this morning. Msgr. poured it all before the Preface.

I'll have to go over all the directives again, but I think they were all there, except for the not altering readings. It was the psalm and it was replaced by the "seasonal" one. I think the problem was that because the Cathedral is a tourist attraction, the Mass music is in the bulletin and it was already printed. We'll see what next week brings.
39 posted on 04/25/2004 10:05:12 AM PDT by Desdemona
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To: Desdemona
I guess it all depends on how much the laity holds the bishops' feet to the fire.

AmBishops have asbestos feet.

40 posted on 04/25/2004 11:45:01 AM PDT by Catholicguy (MT1618 Church of Peter remains pure and spotless from all leading into error, or heretical fraud)
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