It May Not Be Realized Yet

San Francisco Faith ^ | STEPHEN FRANKINI

[Jim Robinson]

LOL. Is THAT what you were doing. Some folks thought you were trying to pick a fight with the moderators.

[Romulus]

I am thinking about it. There are lots of passages in the old testament about uncovering someone's nakedness and how it was frowned upon.

Good; you're on the right track. Now think some more. Why is nudity frowned upon? Because after the Fall it's inextricably mixed up with mankind's dis-integrated condition, especially with respect to sexuality. Nakedness in the fallen world thus becomes a condition uniquely appropriate to marriage -- not just because it's more or less necessary, but because it images the trust that should exist between spouses. The fact that nudity's proper context has become nuptial is precisely why it's not inappropriate in a crucifix, so long (as I observed in the stupidly-deleted post that kicked off this sorry display) as both laity and clergy have had a wholesome spiritual formation. As this lamentable thread shows, that formation is rare in the extreme.

[Romulus]

Actually, they were picking a fight with me. I hope I've earned the right over the years to be treated as someone who doesn't abuse this forum. So do I have your permission to post art by Michelangelo?

[Jim Robinson]

I don't care what you post.

[Romulus]

Just trying to earn my keep. How am I doing?

[Romulus]

Thank you. I won't abuse your indulgence.

[drstevej]

The key is under the mat. Please change then linens at the end of your stay.

[Romulus]

I'll leave the joint cleaner than when I found it, or at least will try to.

[Aliska]

I'll have to take this up again tomorrow, and I've probably been exposed to more casual nakedness than catholics, but even so, people of no religious beliefs maintain their modesty or go completely overboard the other way.

I agree with your point about nakedness and the fall, nakedness and marital intimacy, but the saints are depicted as wearing white garments and wedding garments in the bible, and I prefer my Jesus and saints clothed if it is all right with you. The nakedness of the cross was an anomaly, a gross humiliation of Jesus. To this day, a mark of humiliation (not the gracious kind of humility, the other kind) is to force captives to disrobe, and preferably parade them before the public where more often than not, scorn is heaped upon them solely because of their naked condition.

If people want Jesus naked, that is their choice.

[Romulus]

saints are depicted as wearing white garments and wedding garments in the bible

Exactly! Because they're at the Lamb's Wedding Feast! And Ephesians 5 tells us in detail that the Lamb of God has the Church for his spouse.

I prefer my Jesus and saints clothed if it is all right with you.

Careful with the "my Jesus" talk. Jesus is the Truth; he's not something we construct to meet our expectations and be emotionally congenial. He's a sign of contradiction, as the Gospel says. If he's not rocking your world, you don't know him.

The nakedness of the cross was an anomaly, a gross humiliation of Jesus.

You realise of course that none of this could have happened unless Jesus had consented to every jot and tittle. That fact that the Son of David (like David before him) was naked was no accident. It was his choice, precisely because it was meant to convey a profound truth.

[lockeliberty]

The Lord God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife, and clothed them.

Amazing, how irregardless of denomination, the nakedness of Christ is seen as immodest when it should be seen as victory. It is the very nakedness of Christ that clothes us.

[Romulus]

it should be seen as victory

Reconciling man to God in a way that cancels out Adam's "I was afraid", and unfolding the meaning of the paschal salutation and existential vocation to "BE not afraid."

[Dr. Eckleburg]

I continue to enjoy your posts, and am honored to now be first among a veritable trilogy of snappy one-liners.

I sleep content. 8~)

[Romulus]

That's very sporting of you. Sleep tight.

[BlackVeil]

Why don't you post pictures of the naked Blessed Virgin or a naked St. Joseph and call it holy?

I don't know about St Joseph, but there have been depictions of Mary which used to be considered holy enough for the churches, but got thrown out in the 19th century. In the south of France, ancient statues of the Virgin Mary in childbirth were destroyed, and those of her breastfeeding were hidden away.

Personally, I don't like nudity in art, especially religious art. But there is a long tradition of it in very celebrated religious places. Maybe it helps to look at images as always being symbolic.

[Romulus]

those of her breastfeeding were hidden away.

If they were, they've been brought out again. The Vatican Museum displays a breastfeeding Madonna dell'Umilta by Francescuccio Ghissi, and the Lateran Pinacoteca features a Madonna del Latte by Giovanni di Pietro.

[BlackVeil]

I daresay that in Italy, these images may have never been in eclipse. The French statues which I am refering to, were of a folk art type, and seemed crude to 19th century respectable types.

At least the 19th century respectable types usually just hid statues they didn't like. So they could later on display in a different way in museums.

[Romulus]

I once saw a similar image in Mexico, of a saintly woman offering her generous breast to a dying old man. I won't claim that my 11-year-old eyes weren't startled, but what took me aback more than anything was the exaggerated pietism and emotional manipulativeness of the painting, rather than any sexual shock. I was embarassed by the picture, but only because I thought it mawkish, not indecent. Anyway, I survived that trauma and lived to tell the tale.

[HarleyD]

"Christ was crucified naked. That is the reality."

That may be the reality but it also shows that utter lack of respect some people hold for our Lord Jesus. And THAT’S the reality.

If John didn't cover his nakedness, I would have.

[lockeliberty]

existential vocation to "BE not afraid."

Truly, as we take dominion and subdue the earth we stand before God clothed with the nakedness of Christ and without shame.