Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Liturgy wars nearing an end
National Clergy Review Board ^ | 3/19/2004 | John L. Allen

Posted on 03/20/2004 10:21:52 AM PST by sinkspur

Signs continue to accumulate that the “liturgy wars” in the Catholic Church are nearing an end, even if no one has declared the close of major combat operations à la President George Bush in Iraq.

In the 1990s, no issue in English-speaking Catholicism was more contentious. Sliced one way, these tussles -- whether to use the word “man,” where to put the tabernacle -- were a struggle between inculturation and diversity, versus unity based on the Roman model. Sliced another way, they pitted decentralization against a strong Roman hand. It also put “inclusive language” against critics who felt feminism had cut too many inroads into the church.

Whatever the case, these liturgical debates commanded enormous amounts of time and psychological energy. Today, however, the situation is closer to a mop-up operation. The advocates of a more traditional, “sacral” approach have won, while those who want a more flexible and idiomatic style of speech and worship have largely retreated to fight another day.

The latest indication came in an exclusive March 11 NCR interview with Cardinal George Pell of Sydney, Australia. Pell chairs the Vox Clara Committee, created in July 2001 to advise the Vatican on liturgical translation in English. Pell told NCR his committee may not have a raison d’être after a translation of the Roman Missal, the collection of prayers for the Mass, is completed. The core of that project, the Order of Mass, could be finished by early 2005, with the rest coming not much later.

Even if Vox Clara continues in another form, the fact that Pell can contemplate a future without it suggests that its original purpose has largely been accomplished.

A body of 11 bishops from around the English-speaking world, Vox Clara was erected in response to the need to speed up a translation of the Mass consistent with the conservative translation principles promulgated in the May 2001 document Liturgiam Authenticam. Besides Pell, who has a history of concern with the fidelity of English translations to the original Latin, the committee includes two Americans with a similar pedigree: Cardinals Francis George of Chicago and Justin Rigali of Philadelphia.

In part, Vox Clara’s mission amounted to monitoring the progress of a Vatican-directed overhaul of the the International Commission on English in the Liturgy (ICEL).

Long a bete-noir among critics of post-Vatican II liturgical reforms, ICEL now has new statutes and personnel, and is producing texts more to the liking of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments and Vox Clara. The turn-around at ICEL means that, in effect, Vox Clara may have worked itself out of business.

What does the future hold?

One lurking danger for the victors in the liturgy wars is, ironically, much the same faced by American forces in Iraq. With the combined force of the Vatican and heavy-hitters such as Pell, those favoring a more distinctively Catholic argot could deploy a “shock and awe” campaign that was destined to prevail in any test of ecclesiastical strength. The problem is that they have not yet convinced the people in the trenches of the justness of their cause. Many English-speaking liturgists are resigned to the new dispensation, but in their hearts they cling to the approach embodied in the “old” ICEL.

Hence, there is a risk of low-key resistance, even sabotage, as church officials get things rolling in parishes and dioceses. Forcing through new translation principles and turning ICEL upside down, as painful as it may have been, was the easy part. Now the hard work begins -- winning the hearts and minds of pastors and liturgists, not to mention worshipping communities.

Pell and I also spoke about whether or not the new Order of Mass is being produced with undue haste, how Vox Clara organizes its work, and the controversial question of changing the “people’s parts” in the Mass. The full text of the interview can be found in the Special Documents section at NCRonline.org: Pell Interview.


TOPICS: General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: catholicchurch; catholiclist
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 141-159 next last

1 posted on 03/20/2004 10:21:52 AM PST by sinkspur
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: sinkspur
The link is to the NCR, not the Review Board.
2 posted on 03/20/2004 10:24:44 AM PST by sinkspur (Adopt a dog or a cat from an animal shelter! It will save one life, and may save two.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Comment #3 Removed by Moderator

To: Salve Regina
If it weren't for the abuses, the Novus Ordo would really not be that much different from the Latin Mass.

Yep, but the SSPXers will tell you otherwise.

Perhaps the restoration and reunification will begin in our time

The restoration is here, now. With the new translation and the GIRM, the liturgy will now be given a long time to gel.

There is no indication that any of the world's bishops are anxious to push the Church into some Tridentine restoration or any further innovation.

4 posted on 03/20/2004 12:25:11 PM PST by sinkspur (Adopt a dog or a cat from an animal shelter! It will save one life, and may save two.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

Comment #5 Removed by Moderator

To: sinkspur
Whatever the case, these liturgical debates commanded enormous amounts of time and psychological energy. Today, however, the situation is closer to a mop-up operation. The advocates of a more traditional, "sacral" approach have won, while those who want a more flexible and idiomatic style of speech and worship have largely retreated to fight another day.

Welcome news; I hope where change and correction is truly needed, it'll be shortly coming!  Two questions:
6 posted on 03/20/2004 12:44:37 PM PST by GirlShortstop
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: sinkspur; Land of the Irish; narses; ultima ratio; Salve Regina
A new translation, a new GIRM, a new springtime of Vat II, a new this and a new that. It's old now sinkspur. It ain't gonna work. It didn't in 1968 and it won't now. But the ageing '60's types(like sinkspur) will keep trying to convince themselves that "if we can just get this new thing goin', it'll all be cool finally."
7 posted on 03/20/2004 12:55:01 PM PST by sydney smith
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: sydney smith; sinkspur
A new translation, a new GIRM, a new springtime of Vat II, a new this and a new that. It's old now sinkspur. It ain't gonna work. It didn't in 1968 and it won't now.

Syd, would it kill ya ONCE to can your ever cheery and pessimistic p.o.v. when coming into a Catholic thread?

Perhaps foolishly, I remain hopeful that Catholic discussion about the changes will not devolve.
8 posted on 03/20/2004 1:07:40 PM PST by GirlShortstop
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: GirlShortstop; sinkspur
Honey, since the "springtime of Vatican II" Mass attendance among Catholics has gone from around 80% to 25%. This is a result of the hair-brained ideas such as those espoused by our liberally-learned friend that posts these redundant articles looking for a response from trads. I realize that quoting stats(like those above) to you will also be considered "pessimistic" and I am sorry for that. However life in the Church is not all tea, roses and little kitties honey.
9 posted on 03/20/2004 1:26:03 PM PST by sydney smith
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: sydney smith
This is a result of the hair-brained ideas such as those espoused by our liberally-learned friend that posts these redundant articles looking for a response from trads.

Since rad-trads are just about all that remain on the religion forum, with a few notable exceptions, I'm just trying to get out some information on what is happening in the mainstream of the Catholic Church.

An article or two from Rome, meant to counterbalance all the sewage from The Remnant, The Latin Mass, and all the other reactionary stuff that gets posted throughout the week.

10 posted on 03/20/2004 1:55:46 PM PST by sinkspur (Adopt a dog or a cat from an animal shelter! It will save one life, and may save two.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: sinkspur; GatorGirl; maryz; *Catholic_list; afraidfortherepublic; Antoninus; Aquinasfan; Askel5; ...
Since rad-trads are just about all that remain on the religion forum, with a few notable exceptions, ...

So "deacon", how do you define "rad-trads"? Since you label "just about all" of us, would you be kind enough to PING any I've missed and explain to us all who you think we are versus who you are.

11 posted on 03/20/2004 2:19:11 PM PST by narses (If you want OFF or ON my Catholic Ping list, please email me. +)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: sinkspur
I didn't realize "The Latin Mass" magazine was considered reactionary. I'll have to cancel my subscription immediately and subscribe to a more moderate magazine, like you. Where can I sign up for the "National Catholic Reporter" ASAP?
12 posted on 03/20/2004 2:20:53 PM PST by sydney smith
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: sydney smith; sinkspur; BlackElk; ninenot
since the "springtime of Vatican II" Mass attendance among Catholics has gone from around 80% to 25%.  Information that should be known;  is it reliable?

This is a result of the hair-brained ideas such as those espoused by our liberally-learned friend that posts these redundant articles looking for a response from trads.

Your opinion; I am not a trad, and I appreciate Catholic news (which NCR may occassionally provide).

I realize that quoting stats(like those above) to you will also be considered "pessimistic" and I am sorry for that.

You can be sorry for your tone, and/or your improper use of "honey" when addressing me, but you should not be sorry for supplying information nor an honest, charitably stated comment.

However life in the Church is not all tea, roses and little kitties, honey.

See previous comment about your tone, and honest and charitable responses.  And LIFE IN THE CHURCH syd, a question without malice:  how would you personally know about it, if you are schismatic (as you have "proclaimed")?
13 posted on 03/20/2004 2:25:22 PM PST by GirlShortstop
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: sydney smith
Anything that Christopher Ferrara contributes to is reactionary.
14 posted on 03/20/2004 2:26:41 PM PST by sinkspur (Adopt a dog or a cat from an animal shelter! It will save one life, and may save two.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: sinkspur
Can anything good come out of the ICEL? I'll believe it when I see it.

Will they continue to translate "Et cum spirito tuo" "and also with you"? Funny how the words "soul" and "spirit" seem to have pretty much vanished from the liturgy.

It's even vanished from classical translations. The new Penguin translation of Plato's "Symposium" regularly translates "psyche" as mind, when it's clear from long tradition and from the context that the word should be translated "soul." God help us that these translators should admit that human beings have souls. It also translates "lover" as "boyfriend."

I tried using another translation of the "Symposium" and that was even worse. "Eros" is translated not as "love" but as "erotics." Socrates declares himself to be an expert in erotics. Great. As the Italians say, "Traduttore Traditore."
15 posted on 03/20/2004 2:39:43 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Cicero
"Erotic"? Gads. The RadTrads will really love that one. (What is a 'radtrad'?)
16 posted on 03/20/2004 2:44:22 PM PST by narses (If you want OFF or ON my Catholic Ping list, please email me. +)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: GirlShortstop
Whatever, sweetie.
17 posted on 03/20/2004 2:58:58 PM PST by sydney smith
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: sinkspur
With the new translation and the GIRM, the liturgy will now be given a long time to gel.

I'm gell'in like Magellan with my new Dr. Scholl's shoe inserts. They make my Novus Ordo Masses fly by since the kneeling is practically non-existent.

18 posted on 03/20/2004 3:12:14 PM PST by Land of the Irish
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Land of the Irish
Come on seriously. For those of us attending a Latin Mass for the first time, some prewarning about building up leg muscles ahead of time would be polite! The kneeling is not so bad, but the ups/downs and my knees tell me I need to get in shape!! LOL!
19 posted on 03/20/2004 3:19:22 PM PST by netmilsmom (Jonathansmommie's daughter was born 3-11-04, both home today!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Cicero
Will they continue to translate "Et cum spirito tuo" "and also with you"? Funny how the words "soul" and "spirit" seem to have pretty much vanished from the liturgy.

Word is that this particular quote will be faithful to the translation. We'll have to be PATIENT and wait and see.
20 posted on 03/20/2004 3:24:02 PM PST by Desdemona (Music Librarian and provider of cucumber sandwiches, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary. Hats required.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 141-159 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson