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To: yonif
"They must understand that a mistake was made here," Spector said. "The fool is one who wanders about in the dark in dangerous places, so they should not come with any complaints."

As one who generally supports Israel's actions and often thinks they are too restrained in dealing with the Arabs, I find this statement arrogant. Even more, Israel should worry about its citizens who bite the hand that feeds them. I have trouble with pilots who can't distinguish antennae from cannon or missile launchers. What Arab navy had a ship that would look like the Liberty? I can’t explain Israel’s motives. Only they know what they were thinking, but it seems that the incident was more than a simple mistake.

20 posted on 10/10/2003 9:59:13 AM PDT by LoneRangerMassachusetts
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To: LoneRangerMassachusetts
What Arab navy had a ship that would look like the Liberty?

That's an intersting question. Equally interesting is why you think a fighter-pilot would know the answer, before or after being ordered to attack, as is claimed.

23 posted on 10/10/2003 10:06:34 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: LoneRangerMassachusetts
I have trouble with pilots who can't distinguish antennae from cannon or missile launchers. What Arab navy had a ship that would look like the Liberty? I can’t explain Israel’s motives. Only they know what they were thinking, but it seems that the incident was more than a simple mistake.

Accurate identification of things from the air is just one of those things that seems theoretically easy, but in practice is nearly impossible.

The idea of telling "cannon" or "missle launchers" from "antennas" from an aircraft traveling 400+ mph, no matter how low it is, is simply laughably impossible.

There's an incredibly long history of egregious errors in identification by pilots dating back to WWI.

US Navy ships were attacked by US Navy and Air Corps aircraft in World War II. Destroyers were identified as Battleships, cargo vessels or tankers as aircraft carriers.

And you're upset that the IAF pilots weren't able to accurately view precise details of small pieces of equipment on the Liberty, or spend hours carefully studying Jane's Fighting Ships to determine what the Liberty was?

Heck, I remember a thread on a friendly fire incident last week where a USMC Vietnam vet FReeper recounted incidents where they were repeatedly attacked by USAF aircraft for extended periods of time, despite frantic use of flares, radio call-offs, etc.

This is just one of those things where people will refuse to "get it."

24 posted on 10/10/2003 10:08:39 AM PDT by John H K
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To: LoneRangerMassachusetts
What Arab navy had a ship that would look like the Liberty?

In 1967, Egypt was at war with Israel. The territory from where the Liberty was at was being bombarded. The Liberty was thought to be the Egyptian ship doing that. Israel was told no US ships were in the area.

36 posted on 10/10/2003 11:12:39 AM PDT by yonif ("If I Forget Thee, O Jerusalem, Let My Right Hand Wither" - Psalms 137:5)
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To: LoneRangerMassachusetts
I find this statement arrogant...

All pilots, especially fighter pilots, tend towards the arrogant. Actually his remark it's just a blunt statement of fact, and his opinion that our ship was where it should not been.

My dog once got in a fight with another dog. I tried to break it up and got bit by my own dog. There was no conspiracy. Just me sticking my hand in where it did not belong and getting bit by accident.

If we're going to cling to the conspiracy theories regarding the Liberty, then we should keep our mouths shut when the Arabs talk conspiracy about the downing of that Iranian airliner by our most sophisticated of ships, or when the Canadians demand prosecutions because of our bombing their troops in Afghanistan.

When the shooting starts and the adrenaline starts flowing, soldiers, all soldiers, tend to shoot first and ask questions later. Accidents tend to happen. It's called friendly fire and it's a problem in every conflict.

As for identification of the Liberty, flags are tough to identify when there is little or no wind and they're draped down the pole. They're even harder to identify when you are flying 400 to 500mph in a jet fighter. Ask any Navy pilot. Why do you think Isreali ships had big white crosses painted on them? Flags are hard to identify from fast moving aircraft even if they're flying in a stiff breeze. I know this from first hand experience.

48 posted on 10/10/2003 3:24:47 PM PDT by PsyOp ( Citizenship ought to be reserved for those who carry arms. - Aristotle.)
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