Herman Cain Will Crusade Against Income Tax

Human Events ^ | Oct. 3, 2003

[mafree]

I may move to GA to help get this guy elected if he's going to do away with the income tax.

[mafree]

Herman Cain Will Crusade Against Income Tax

What do you guys think of this?

[ApesForEvolution]

BTTT for later read.

[ancient_geezer]

23% is waaaayyyy too much.

You pay more than a 23% burden with regard to national taxes now.

I think 12 - 15% WITH sufficient elimination of government pork would be sufficient.

Fine, how do you get there from where we are now. Poof!! overnight pork is gone. By the way who decides what is pork to eliminate?

With a national retail sales tax people make the allocation of their income, not government. You choose what you buy and when thus are more able to control how much tax you pay. Under the current system government decides what you get after they attach their cut first.

Under a national sales tax every voter paticipates in the tax system, every person has a clear and present stake in reduction of government expense and consequently tax rate.

 

23%........... Effective total federal tax rate with respect to consumption expenditure

14.91% ..... rate if Social Security and Medicare were eliminated
14% .......... rate if Nat'l Endowment for the Arts were eliminated
11.9%........ rate if Dept. of Education were eliminated
10% .......... rate if welfare were eliminated
9.8%.......... rate if foreign aid were eliminated
etc.

So lets look at what the maximum it would take to fund those functions clearly authorized under Article I Section 8 of the Constitution, in current dollars:

http://w3.access.gpo.gov/usbudget/fy2001/guide02.html#Spending

• $285 Billion --- Defense
• $ 49 Billion ---- Veterens Services
• $ 31 Billion ---- Administration of Justice
• $ 16 Billion ---- General Government
• $199 Billion ---- Interest on the Debt
  =========================
  $580 Billion ---- Total

Institute an across the board, Flat rate, single stage National Retail Sales Tax, which taxes all imports and domestic products with the same rate.

Replacing all current federal tax law with a retail sales tax would be 23% on new goods and services paid and receipted at the retail register. No hidden tax, no exceptions, exemptions everyone participates.

Such a tax acts in a natural manner to encourage the elimination of excess government functions through visibility of burden among all constituencies of the electorate.

The total federal government budget would move from $2,000 billions towards something less than $580 billions calculated.

The across the board federal tax rate on new goods and services would decline towards less than 6.7%.

As tax rate on sales decreases the economic burden on retail items, the sales volumes and growth in the economy would be tremendous allowing even further reductions in tax rates below that less than 6.7% theoretic level.

That is what I perceive as the ultimate achievements possible under a National Retail Sales Tax structured in the manner of the revenue bill H.R.25. Simple common sense applied to the principal of TANSTAFFL,( no free lunch, everyone participates in paying there way in proportion to the benefit the extract from their consumption.) encourages the natural change in attitudes required of the electorate as regards the burden of government largess in their lives.

Thomas Hobbes from Leviathan

• It is fairer to tax people on what they extract from the economy, as roughly measured by their consumption, than to tax them on what they produce for the economy, as roughly measured by their income

Hmmmmmm....... It's do able, with time and effort, once the blinders are removed from the electorate.

[lewislynn]

The Linder "23%" tax is a fraud.

The tax as written would be "23% of the gross payments"...In other words the Linder tax would tax other taxes, fees etc. imposed before it or included in "the gross payment(s)"

The phony 23% Linder tax would INCREASE prices 30+%

$100.00 (before tax)
Plus 7% state sales tax = $107.00
Plus 23% "gross payment tax" = $138.96 (or 31.96% tax)

$138.96 (gross payment) minus 23% (gross payment tax) = $107.00

[Paul C. Jesup]

I guess you are just too small minded to imagine a white redneck voting for someone who is black.

[ancient_geezer]

The tax as written would be "23% of the gross payments"...In other words the Linder tax would tax other taxes, fees etc. imposed before it or included in "the gross payment(s)"

The phony 23% Linder tax would INCREASE prices 30+%

How do you manage that lewislynn?

Seeing that taxes are not taxable property or services under the bill, and the bill clearly prohibits multiple and cascading of taxes and H.R.25 repeals income & payroll taxes that are now embedded in goods and services.

If the basic price of today's retail product is say for example's sake $100.00

Then we must first subtract the corporate income & payroll taxes and the costs of complying with them currently embedded in retail products as the NRST removes such burdens by repealing the current income and payroll taxes.

The base retail price for the taxable property or service would be about 22.5% lower as a consequence. [ $100 - (.225*100 ] = $81.50

Then the gross payment, as defined in HR25, is calculated

(base retail price + NRST) = $81.50/(1-0.23) = $105.84

under the NRST system.

Any additional excises state, local etc. would be calculated independantly on the base 81.50 retail price in accord with those laws governing such taxes and added onto consumers payment just as it is today for State sales taxes.

The customer in the end would only see a $5.84 increase or less over what he pays now for a given basket of goods and services. And would receive both his full pay check (no federal witholding for FICA or income tax both of which are repealed under HR25) and an additional Family Consumption Allowence (FCA) for each member in the household.

In most cases, between receiving the FCA as well as ones full gross paycheck, the average person should see an increase of around 30% over wages and salaries and other taxed income that he now sees a takehome pay.

In short, individuals will be much better off as a consequence. Not only economically but in being relieved of the burdens and liability under income tax reporting requirements of the present system.

The individual's tax form under the NRST amounts to:

Not only does every family receive a FCA based on family size, not income, but they will also receive 100% of their paycheck:

Fedup Smith makes $39K per year...once the FairTax is the law of the land he will receive an instant increase in pay of $200.00 per week. Since he has a family of four, he will receive a FCA of more than $445 per month, for a total of $1,305.00 additional income per month that he can do with as he sees fit

[knarf]

What's this FCA and where does it come from .... (ultimately) ... me?

Other tax payers?

[Impy]

Ditto, definetly.

Browsing over in (evil forum) I noticed the rats never mention Cain just Isakson versus Collins.

Cain's gonna sneak up on them.


Has there been any primary polling yet?

[lewislynn]

How do you manage that lewislynn?

I don't, they do as plainly written in their bill.

`(b) RATE-

`(1) FOR 2003- In the calendar year 2003, the rate of tax is 23 percent of the gross payments for the taxable property or service.

Oh, before you offer YOUR meaning of "gross payments" (for the umpteenth time) here's (once again) the official one:

`(5) GROSS PAYMENTS- The term `gross payments' means payments for taxable property or services, including Federal taxes imposed by this title.

When you make your telephone "payment" does it include all the taxes?...I thought so, otherwise it wouldn't be a "payment" would it?

[lewislynn]

What's this FCA and where does it come from

It's a "family consumption allowance" it's a phony feel good rebate you pay to yourself through an increased tax rate.

It's calculated by government hacks based on their arbitrary figures of a percentage of the poverty level.

[StriperSniper]

BTTT

[ancient_geezer]

Thanks for quoting the sections making the point for folks lewislynn.

Total income/payroll taxes paid inder the income tax = .23* gross income

lets see

gross payment for goods & services = (gross income - savings.) as the bill defines it.

Tax paid under NRST = .23 * gross payment = .23 * (gross income - savings)

I know which I'd rather pay.

[ancient_geezer]

What's this FCA and where does it come from

FCA is a fixed pre-payment made to every household at the beginning of each month to serve the same function as the personal exemption of the income tax.

It comes from government revenues and is paid back to government via the NRST tax. It comprises approximately 1.5% of the 23% tax.

All legal residents will receive a FCA equivalent to the FairTax paid on essential goods and services. The FCA will be paid in advance, in equal installments each month. The size of the monthly FCA will be determined by the government's Poverty Level for a particular family size, multiplied by the tax rate.

Every year, the Department of Health and Human Services [HHS] determine the "poverty level" for each family size.

The 2001 "FairTax" Family Consumption Allowance Figures
Family Size	HHS Poverty Level	Annual FCA	Monthly FCA
One	$8,590	$1,976	$165
Two	$17,180	$3,951	$329
Three	$20,200	$4,646	$387
Four	$23,220	$5,341	$445
Five	$26,240	$6,035	$503
Six	$29,260	$6,730	$561
Seven	$32,280	$7,424	$619
Eight	$35,300	$8,119	$677

1) Federal Register: February 16, 2001, Pages 10695-10697).

[ The monthly FCA for each adult is .23 * (HSS poverty level for a single person)/12 to assure no marriage penalty due to the manner in which the poverty level is dependant on family size. The monthly FCA for each child is .23 * (the incremental increase of HSS poverty level for a family with one child over no child) ] A. Geezer

A family of four, for example, could spend $23,220 per year free of tax because they will have received over the course of the year rebates totaling $5,341. $5,341 is the amount of sales tax paid on $23,220 in expenditures. A family spending double the "poverty level" or $46,440 per year will effectively pay tax on only half of their spending and, therefore, have an effective tax rate of 11 ½ percent or half the FairTax rate.

[AuH2ORepublican]

Herman Cain is the man! Mac Collins is perfectly fine, but I'd much rather have Herman raising Cain in the Senate.

[Grit]

You better read the wiz's comment again.

[Paul C. Jesup]

So I jumped the gun, after his statements about the south in a previous thread, I have very little respect for him.

[Clintonfatigued]

Herman Cain is one of the most interesting U.S. Senate candidates.. And he's running a campaign of new ideas and unorthodox approaches. It's refreshing to see someone who's willing to think outside of the box. If Cain wins this race, he will be among the most exciting figures in public life. Does he have any chance of winning? What are his poll numbers and fundraising totals? His principles and political courage are admirable, but is he too unconventional for his own electoral good?

[Paul C. Jesup]

Well I doubt that considering the current Senator Zell Miller is hated by the rest of the Democrats at the Federal level.