[LadyDoc]

Personally, I feel the vatican's backing or the UN and European union weakens the church, and presages an anti pope and schism between the PC NWO church and the remnants. But then I tend to be a bit into conspiracy theories ;-)

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[Agnes Heep]

It appears to me as if Christianity is slowly metamorphising into something that's exactly the opposite of what it was originally intended to be.

[bulldogs]

"But then I tend to be a bit into conspiracy theories ;-)"


With good reason. The unsaid "endorsement" of the UN by vatican is very troubling.

[Cicero]

To be fair to the Pope, what he said was essentially that we should pursue every possible avenue to achieve our ends by peaceful means.

We did.

But some of the other bigshots in the Vatican certainly shot their mouths off in a very stupid and unproductive sort of way.

Most traditional-minded Catholics love the Pope, but even saints occasionally go astray on some issues. I think he is off the mark on the related issues of just warfare and capital punishment. He hasn't actually crossed the line, but he has fuzzied these issues up in a way that is very uncharacteristic of everything else he has done.

He seems not to fully understand that it is the solemn duty of a magistrate (i.e. a political leader) to protect and defend his people, and that sometimes a magistrate must use force to accomplish that end.

[Cicero]

To be fair to the Pope, what he said was essentially that we should pursue every possible avenue to achieve our ends by peaceful means.

We did.

But some of the other bigshots in the Vatican certainly shot their mouths off in a very stupid and unproductive sort of way.

Most traditional-minded Catholics love the Pope, but even saints occasionally go astray on some issues. I think he is off the mark on the related issues of just warfare and capital punishment. He hasn't actually crossed the line, but he has fuzzied these issues up in a way that is very uncharacteristic of everything else he has done.

He seems not to fully understand that it is the solemn duty of a magistrate (i.e. a political leader) to protect and defend his people, and that sometimes a magistrate must use force to accomplish that end.

[Cicero]

To be fair to the Pope, what he said was essentially that we should pursue every possible avenue to achieve our ends by peaceful means.

We did.

But some of the other bigshots in the Vatican certainly shot their mouths off in a very stupid and unproductive sort of way.

Most traditional-minded Catholics love the Pope, but even saints occasionally go astray on some issues. I think he is off the mark on the related issues of just warfare and capital punishment. He hasn't actually crossed the line, but he has fuzzied these issues up in a way that is very uncharacteristic of everything else he has done.

He seems not to fully understand that it is the solemn duty of a magistrate (i.e. a political leader) to protect and defend his people, and that sometimes a magistrate must use force to accomplish that end.

[late bloomer]

As a Catholic, Irish, french candian indian I am now forced to reassess my long search for a meaningful cultural heritage.
Heading for a mountaintop in Tibet... om-om-om

[hgro]

The Pope and the catholic hierarchy could better spend their time cleansing their church of sexual perverts. It looks like the United States is the only country where the church is being held to at least a partial accounting for the years of perversion that they have foisted on our country. Its my guess that it won't happed in Europe due to centuries of this perverted behavior by priests, cardinals and popes.

[JasonC]

"The attitude of the Vatican is doubly bewildering"

The article skates close to the obvious reason for it but doesn't take the last step. Yes the attitude of many toward multilaterialism is a sort of substitute church. Yes that church lacks any track record of moral wisdom or leadership to justify affording it authority in such matters. But the church wants the sentiments behind that attitude to exist. It wants them strengthened. It just also wants them directly toward itself, rather than toward the UN or the EU.

The Vatican is jealous of the respect and deferrence the left is according to the UN in such matters. It wants the same position of moral leadership of an ideological consensus it sees operating on the secular left. Instead of a stern lecture about misplacement of such loyalty where it is not deserved, it has said "me too" because it longs for the same respect towards itself.

Prudentially, some Vatican officials may think it better to foster such attitudes with the distance hope they can eventually be redirected toward the church. They do not want to undermine the principle behind the sentiment because they expect to need it themselves. Personally, I do not approve of this. I think it would be much clearer to side with the Iraqi oppressed and praise the US for defying public opinion in favor of obvious justice. But defying public opinion is not what they are about, just at present.

There have been times when the church has understood the need for that, morally, but this isn't one of them. It is not itself oppressed, and under this pope it is relatively popular or respected among outsiders, than in much of the recent past. It aspires to a position it sees others (the left) constructing out of their collective will. It is hardly surprising that it winds up flattering them, unduly, as a result.

[Chancellor Palpatine]

Look at the nations of origin for each cardinal for the root of the problem. Very few from the US and Canada, lots from Eastern Europe and the Third World.

Basically, these guys have the same financial ideal as the UN - let North Americans pay for everything while simultaneously blaming them for everything on earth.

[bimbo]

Maybe those European Catholics who enthusiastically back the Vatican's opposition to war (ALL WARS) will also now begin to attend Mass once again and support the Vatican's position against homosexuality and abortion.

I'm not holding my breath.

[kstewskis]

Personally, I feel the vatican's backing or the UN and European union weakens the church, and presages an anti pope and schism between the PC NWO church and the remnants. But then I tend to be a bit into conspiracy theories ;-)

I agree. It seems very bassackwards to me.

Never thought of myself, being on the brink of being booted from the Catholic Church because I support the war...

So, then can I attend this guy's church?? :)

[narses]

Ping.

[ex-snook]

The war was to defeat the main terrorist treat to peace. The Pope was right, it didn't. The alert flag is still in existence here and there is no peace in Israel. Point, set and match to the Pope.

[Zionist Conspirator]

There is an even darker and more sinister reason for the left/right consensus among Catholics in Europe against the Iraq war: anti-Semitism/anti-Zionism. The traditional hostility of even the mainline Catholic Church to a Jewish state in 'Eretz Yisra'el is little known to most non-Catholics and many Catholics as well. (The fanatical anti-Zionism of the far left and far right of the Church--allegedly for diametrically opposed reasons--is better known, but not as well known as it should be.)

What is interesting here is that it is the Catholic Church, whom anti-Israel "palaeos" consider to be the true cultural religion of "western European man," that is pushing the United Nations, which these same "palaeos" insist is an organ of the Zionist Conspiracy.

Of course, "palaeos" don't have brains (or at least functioning brains), because they insist this "universal church" is the guardian of "aryan man" and seem to think the Pope wants to run (Catholic) Mexicans out of the United States (in the interest of Catholics and Protestants of Northwestern European heritage). Idiots.

How do these people even look themselves in the mirror? Perhaps they don't have reflections.