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Polish troops find new French missiles in Iraq
Rueters via Yahoo! ^ | Friday October 3 | Pawel Kozlowski

Posted on 10/03/2003 12:50:35 PM PDT by So Cal Rocket

WARSAW, Oct 3 (Reuters) - Polish troops in Iraq have found four French-built advanced anti-aircraft missiles which were built this year, a Polish Defence Ministry spokesman told Reuters on Friday.

France strongly denied having sold any such missiles to Iraq for nearly two decades, and said it was impossible that its newest missiles should turn up in Iraq.

"Polish troops discovered an ammunition depot on September 29 near the region of Hilla and there were four French-made Roland-type missiles," Defence Ministry spokesman Eugeniusz Mleczak said.

"It is not the first time Polish troops found ammunition in Iraq but to our surprise these missiles were produced in 2003."

The Roland anti-aircraft system is a short-range air defence missile in service with at least 10 countries, including France and Germany.

They are fired from a mobile launcher vehicle and defence experts say the missiles are highly effective against aircraft attacking at low and medium altitude.

Under a strict trade embargo imposed by the United Nations, Iraq was barred from importing arms after its invasion of Kuwait in 1990.

Among others, Russia, Britain and France all sold arms to Iraq in the 1970s and 1980s. In Iraq's arsenal were Soviet-built Scud missiles, British Chieftain tanks and French Mirage fighters.

But Iraq managed to circumvent the arms trade ban in the 1990s through shadowy deals with various arms traders and kept its military equipment functioning.

"NO MILITARY EXPORTS"

"Since July 1990, France has not authorised a single shipment of military equipment to Iraq," a French Foreign Ministry spokeswoman told Reuters. Similar accusations were made in the U.S. media in April, she said.

In 1980-81, 13 Roland-1 missile systems were shipped to Iraq and from 1983 to 1986, 100 Roland-2 missile systems. The Roland-3 has never been exported to Iraq, she said.

"It is not credible to say that the Roland missiles found a few days ago were produced in 2003 and delivered just before the Anglo-American intervention," the spokeswoman said.

"Let's be absolutely clear about this: no military exports to Iraq were licensed after July 1990."

It was unlikely that the missiles could be used 17-18 years after their delivery, she added.

Mleczak said Polish troops were notified about the missiles by a local Iraqi, who received a reward for the information.

"The ammunition depot was neutralised," said Mleczak. Polish television pictures showed missiles placed in a shallow trench and a huge explosion when the Poles blew up munitions at the site.

Since early September, Poland, a staunch supporter of the U.S.-led war in Iraq, has led a multinational force in one of four so-called stabilisation zones, in central Iraq.

In the run-up to the outbreak of the 2003 Iraq war, American and British combat pilots struck Iraqi anti-aircraft batteries repeatedly as they patrolled no-fly zones in the north and south of the country.

(Additional reporting by Jon Boyle in Paris)


TOPICS: Breaking News; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: embargo; france; frenchmissiles; frenchweaponsiraq; frogs; illegalweapons; iraq; missiles; oops; poland; roland1; roland2; roland3
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To: newcats
Read the article...the evidence was destroyed before it could be inspected.

I doubt it- the Poles already took the time to locate the serial numbers and looked up the manufacturing date, which implies that they took plenty of pictures and/or took down relavent details for the record... although these are just air defense missiles and not WMD.

Finding the documents relevent to these missiles will give more detail as to how they came to be where they were found.

121 posted on 10/03/2003 3:20:50 PM PDT by piasa (Attitude adjustments offered here free of charge.)
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To: Mo1
According to the article a Polish television has at least pictures showed of the missiles.

And I got pictures of Bigfoot having lunch with Elvis at Burger King.
My question is why they weren'y turned over to us?
122 posted on 10/03/2003 3:41:34 PM PDT by newcats
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To: xJones
What did you want the Poles to do with them?

Simple....Turn them over to us.
123 posted on 10/03/2003 3:43:13 PM PDT by newcats
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To: newcats
How do you know the US wasn't informed?

Do you not trust the Polish troops??

124 posted on 10/03/2003 3:50:43 PM PDT by Mo1 (http://www.favewavs.com/wavs/cartoons/spdemocrats.wav)
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To: Bikers4Bush
Freakin' scumbag frogs.

Easy to understand why the leftists connect.

125 posted on 10/03/2003 3:52:20 PM PDT by Tumbleweed_Connection
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To: dennisw; TopQuark; Alouette; veronica; weikel; EU=4th Reich; BrooklynGOP; Jimmyclyde; Buggman; ...
Polish troops in Iraq have found four French-built advanced anti-aircraft missiles which were built this year, a Polish Defence Ministry spokesman told Reuters on Friday.

Middle East list

If people want on or off this list, please let me know.

126 posted on 10/03/2003 3:52:29 PM PDT by knighthawk (And for the name of peace, we will prevail)
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To: Republican Red
You know, chIRAQ looks so....French.
127 posted on 10/03/2003 3:56:17 PM PDT by JayNorth
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To: So Cal Rocket
BTTT
128 posted on 10/03/2003 4:05:35 PM PDT by Right_in_Virginia
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To: knighthawk
I'm just shocked, shocked I tell ya, with this discovery.
129 posted on 10/03/2003 4:13:14 PM PDT by Catspaw
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To: Dog
The GPS jammers supplied to Iraq came from a Russian firm. These were originally delivered through Syria. Russia could legally export them to Syria. If the French firm sold Roland missiles directly to Iraq it would be idiotic beyond belief. Like the GPS jammers they more than likely came through a third party/country without any knowledge of the French government. French Air Force Mirage IV's were flying over Iraq on recon missions on behalf of the UN inspectors. For positive proof the identity plates needed to be removed from those Rolands and the shipment from the firm positively identifed as to whom they were originally ordered by. Iraq in the late 1990's did everything that they could to gain spares for their aircraft and other equipment going not through government to government deals, but through dodgy arms dealers and firms. Next the France bashers are going to be claiming that there are factory fresh Mirage fighters waiting to be dug up from the sand.
130 posted on 10/03/2003 4:34:53 PM PDT by Tommyjo
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To: So Cal Rocket
The story also broke in April when a US intelligence officer came across a stockpile of Roland in Iraq. On the missiles were plates with the following "05/11 KND 2002" It was deemed from this that the missiles were built in 2002 and came from France. What people failed to realise was that the Iraqi's spent great time and effort in returning what they had in their inventories back to an operational state. The missile tag could easily have come from the fact that a Roland supplied pre 1990 was put through the Iraqi Kindi (KND) Research, Testing, Development, and Engineering facility and tagged with the Iraqi's own marker tag. The Iranians for example reverse engineered British Rapier SAMs and the Iraqi's had a good history of missile development, they could easily refurbish and extend existing missiles in their inventory. The Iraqi's also cobbled together SA-6's with infra-red seeker heads from AA-8 Aphid air-to-air missiles. These missiles were also discovered by US troops. This recent breaking story needs more indepth analysis. Simply having a tag with a 2002 or 2003 date on it proves nothing if the Iraqi's simply refurbished and extended the life of existing stocks of Rolands and tagged them accordingly.

Statement by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs Spokesperson
(Paris, April 16, 2003) relaesed after the discovery back in April of the Rolands.

"Q - Do you have any comments on the article in Newsweek reporting that US troops in Iraq have discovered Franco-German missiles?

Like several other western states, including the US by the way, France exported weapons to Iraq in the 1970s and 1980s: Roland 1 missiles and firing systems in 1980-81, Roland 2 missiles and firing systems in 1983-86. All deliveries, including spare parts, were broken off in the summer of 1990. France has strictly observed the embargo on weapons since then.

We confirm in particular that there was no export of Roland missiles or parts to Iraq after 1990. The marking cited by Newsweek (05/11 KND 2002) does not correspond to markings used by the French MBDA company on these missiles.
Roland 1 and 2 went out of production in 1988 and 1993 respectively. So it's impossible for a Roland 2 to have been manufactured in 2002.
With that stated, the Iraqis did have significant quantities of parts and could have cannibalized firing units and put new markings on them. So it's possible the Roland missiles are still operational.

Need I add that we gave the US authorities full information about our exports prior to 1991 in preparation for the Gulf War in which France took part.
As for the allegation about the discovery of a burnt-out Roland firing unit, two things should be borne in mind:

- one, no Roland 3 missile or firing unit was ever exported to Iraq. There have been very few exports of this type of missile and those that were exported were coupled with a strict clause barring re-export.
- also, to my knowledge, the Roland 2 and Roland 3 firing units are practically identical, differing only in software. Being able to distinguish a burnt-out unit is quite a feat, and we would like to check it.
In general if the US authorities have elements leading them to questions about possible embargo violations by French persons or companies, we would like to be informed so as to make the necessary checks and where necessary punish such violations.
But at this stage the insinuations in the article you referred definitely don't seem to be based on reliable indicators."
131 posted on 10/03/2003 5:24:07 PM PDT by Tommyjo
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To: So Cal Rocket
I hope Dubya is on the phone with Chiraq right now, asking how he thinks we'd take it if an American or British boy went home in a box because one of those missiles shot down his plane.
132 posted on 10/03/2003 5:25:42 PM PDT by Mr. Silverback (Free Republic--Heartland Values, Think Tank Intellect.)
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To: So Cal Rocket
LOL!
133 posted on 10/03/2003 5:31:28 PM PDT by Mr. Silverback (Free Republic--Heartland Values, Think Tank Intellect.)
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To: So Cal Rocket
Quel horreur!
134 posted on 10/03/2003 5:45:35 PM PDT by Ciexyz
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To: OXENinFLA
Hey, Frenchies - vous faites moi PUKE.
135 posted on 10/03/2003 5:46:32 PM PDT by Ciexyz
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To: kevkrom
Looks like they paid strict attention to the 'parsing of words' taught so effectively by the last administration. Tres bien!
136 posted on 10/03/2003 5:49:37 PM PDT by mrtysmm
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To: OldFriend
Hmmmm.....time travel......Where was Clark before he opted to join the 9 dwarves??? Inquiring minds want to know!
137 posted on 10/03/2003 5:51:17 PM PDT by mrtysmm
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To: So Cal Rocket
Don't ever forget, the only thing French's Mustard and the French have in common is they are both YELLOW!


138 posted on 10/03/2003 5:58:47 PM PDT by jws3sticks ((Hillary can take a long walk on a short pier, anytime, the sooner the better!))
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To: latrans
so they sent them UNLICENSED missiles...
FRENCH LIARS, actively working to overthrow the english and their colonies...

damn france anyway.
139 posted on 10/03/2003 6:02:16 PM PDT by Robert_Paulson2 (robert... the rino...)
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To: Robert_Paulson2
Probably shipped thru a third country.
140 posted on 10/03/2003 6:31:34 PM PDT by OldFriend (DEMS INHABIT A PARALLEL UNIVERSE)
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